Most accurate PCP Repeater?

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Maple57

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I recently picked up an FX Dreamline 22, put it in an Aeron chassis and it's not as accurate as the YouTubers would have lead me to believe.

I had a Fienwerkbau before so that set my air accuracy expectations for the price point. I didn't exactly expect an FX to shoot like that but I was hoping for more than I got.

So now what?

I haven't been able to find any aftermarket barrels to change it. Maybe they are out there... is it worth chasing?

But at this point I'm really thinking of a different brand, but here's the trick...

I'm using the air rifle at 10 yards to practice for PRS shooting... so it must be a repeater, it must accept a scope, it must have a great trigger... it must be able to fit in an Aeron chassis or similar if it doesn't already come that way. I will fit it for an Arca rail.

I need to be able to run it around 500 FPS to keep lead dust down inside the house. (but if it can run faster as an option, that's great, if I ever want to go outside with it.)

I have an eye on the Weirauch HW100... but not sure if that's the way to go.

Any airgun exerts out there?

What do you guys think?
 
Ronan_357 said:
How many pellet head sizes and weights did you try?
Click to expand...

about 10

I'm not talking about cherry picking a nice group.

I'm talking about a consistent point of aim day in and day out with small groups.

There's no way some micro weight sleeved free floating fishing rod barrel is going to hold point of aim... and the dream line doesn't. (No front page news now that I've researched it more thoroughly) I added a barrel band to help and it does, and the barrel band does not hurt groups... it helps if anything, but still falls short of accuracy expectations. The Dreamline is a great air rifle for hunting and plinking though.... but that's not my bag.
 
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I've had a number of PCP rifles, springers, and air pistols.

Is this the FX rifle you have?



For other readers, the rifle above is the barreled action similar to the rifle below.



In my experience there are two basic reasons for inaccuracy (assuming sights or scope are not an issue). One is the wrong pellet (size is everything here) the second a dud barrel.

To address the dud barrel first. Although FX has as good a reputation for barrel quality as any of the other major quality PCP makers, any one of them can have a poor barrel. I had a Weihrauch HW 100 in .22 that would not shoot consistently despite a very wide variety of pellets used. The dealer contacted Weihrauch in Germany and soon I had a new barrel. It made a significant difference.

The other cause of inaccuracy -- and the most common -- is the wrong pellet. Just as not all .22LR ammo shoots equally well in a rimfire rifle, not all pellets will perform equally well. Pellets are not only made in different calibers and weights and even shapes, but also, most importantly, in different head sizes. If a pellet with an inappropriate head size is used, the results are often easily apparent on target.

In .22, pellets have various head sizes ranging from 5.0mm to 5.5mm. Not all manufacturers' head sizes will necessarily be the same as those of other pellet makers. And, more annoyingly, not all pellets in a tin of .22 pellets with a certain head size on the label will have that particular head size. Unfortunately, .22 pellets have fewer varieties for target shooting than .177. For example, it is possible to get pellets in .177 made specifically for 10m shooting. The smaller diameter pellets are the ones preferred by serious target shooters for that very reason.

Nevertheless, like a .22LR at short range, such as 25 yards, a PCP rifle, which doesn't have any appreciable recoil to interfere with accuracy, should be pretty good at 10 meters. If it is shot from a rest or a bipod, it should be grouping very well even with pellets that aren't necessarily with the optimum head size. If the shooting is offhand at 10m then there may well be other problems at play.
 
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Yes grauhanen, that's the rifle and the stock it's in. The scope is a 6-24 Vortex Diamondback Tactical.

I have a feeling I'd be more satisfied with the HW100 in .177 at 500 FPS. I only shoot this rifle from 30 feet in the basement.... not outside.

I work with a guy whos a very committed field target shooter. He was out in England for a match a few months ago. He's a big fan of Air Arms, but isn't very familiar with the HW100. I don't much care for Air Arms, based on what I glean from YouTube reviews... never touched one, but the S410 Biathlon seems interesting (if moved to the Aeron Chassis) But I'd still have the possible double feed problem.

Since I'm using the rifle to practice PRS motor skills, I really like the anti double load feature on the HW100. I have a few times double bumped the bolt loading 2 pellets during open bolt position changes and that would not be possible with the HW100.

I think guys tend to exaggerate air gun accuracy simply because the distances are typically so short.... 1/10 inch group at 10 yards is still only 1 MOA... and that's nothing to brag about.

I have a theory on pellets regarding deformation of the pellet skirt depending on pressure. Seems some pellets shot well for me at 900 FPS that shoot terribly at 500 FPS... I think it's because 500 FPS isn't enough pressure to puff the skirt out.

How did you like the HW with the new barrel or the rifle in general?
 
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grauhanen said:
In .22, pellets have various head sizes ranging from 5.0mm to 5.5mm.
Click to expand...

I’ve never thought of trying .20 cal pellets in a .22 :p

To the OP, I’ve had an HW100T for about 6 years now. I recall testing pellets early on and settling on Barracuda match 21.14gr 5.52 diameter. My test target was five 5 shot groups at 25m indoors and averaged .253”. The trigger on the HW100 is legendary, as is fit and finish. Mine is the full power model, I get 820fps with the 21.14. Shot count at this power has you keeping the bottle handy with 32 shots per fill. Mags are 14 shot, so I just fill every two. The T model has a pistol grip, I wouldn’t really call it a thumb hole, and is wonderfully ergonomic and completely ambidextrous.

I shoot it at 50 when it’s reasonably calm, 3/4” is the norm, and if you get everything right you can get under 1/2”. I’ve shot it to 130 yards and seem to remember 10 shots around 2-3”...I have a pic somewhere.

I’ve thought about getting another in .177 with the UK 12 ft.lb rating as that model has a shot count of around 90 I believe.
 
I've written a review about my FX Streamline in .22, and it is certainly something you would like. The accuracy and consistency it has provided after the initial 500 or so pellet break in is amazing. I have stuck with 15.9gr JSBs in 4.52. The 18.1gr shot a little less tight. I can regularly shoot extremely tight groups of 10 at 40 yards, 1/4" pretty much every time. At 100 yards, my best group was 3/8", although that was better than most. I generally will shoot sub 2 MOA at that range off a bench, but it definitely opens up as I increase the range.

That being said, my Steamline has a solid barrel and no shroud. Does your Dreamline just come with the barrel liner in a sleeve? Also, how many shots have you put through it? It took mine a while to stop throwing random fliers. The barrel wasn't seasoned properly for quite a few hundred rounds. Since that time, it has only improved. I'm around 5,000 pellet count.
 
I'm around 500 rounds Barfman at the moment and things do seem to be improving as you suggested they would. Hopefully the trend continues, but last night I had to change my zero by 1.25 MOA from the night before. That's just bad. It doesn't seem like much when you see it as 1/10th of an inch at 10 yards, but in MOA, that's a lot.

The barrel is not solid, to my dismay, which I think is where most of the problem lies. It's just a tube in a tube.

PGW Steve is really only describing groups around 1 MOA, which I think is not so good. I guess I was expecting center fire type accuracy and a consistent POI.

1/4 inch at 40 yards is just over 1/2 MOA and that's more like what I'm hoping for. Sounds like the Streamline is a better gun with a "real barrel".
 
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PGW Steve said:
I’ve never thought of trying .20 cal pellets in a .22 :p
Click to expand...

I've clearly made a mistake about the size. It's been a while since I thought about pellet sizes in metric. Yes, 5.0mm is .20 cal. What I should have written had I been more careful was that .22 caliber pellets are available in 5.50, 5.51, 5.52, 5.53, 5.54, and 5.55mm head sizes. My comments above about the consistency of head sizes between manufacturers and within a tin still stands.
 
Maple57 said:
Yes grauhanen, that's the rifle and the stock it's in. The scope is a 6-24 Vortex Diamondback Tactical.

I have a feeling I'd be more satisfied with the HW100 in .177 at 500 FPS. I only shoot this rifle from 30 feet in the basement.... not outside.

I work with a guy whos a very committed field target shooter. He was out in England for a match a few months ago. He's a big fan of Air Arms, but isn't very familiar with the HW100. I don't much care for Air Arms, based on what I glean from YouTube reviews... never touched one, but the S410 Biathlon seems interesting (if moved to the Aeron Chassis) But I'd still have the possible double feed problem.

Since I'm using the rifle to practice PRS motor skills, I really like the anti double load feature on the HW100. I have a few times double bumped the bolt loading 2 pellets during open bolt position changes and that would not be possible with the HW100.

I think guys tend to exaggerate air gun accuracy simply because the distances are typically so short.... 1/10 inch group at 10 yards is still only 1 MOA... and that's nothing to brag about.

I have a theory on pellets regarding deformation of the pellet skirt depending on pressure. Seems some pellets shot well for me at 900 FPS that shoot terribly at 500 FPS... I think it's because 500 FPS isn't enough pressure to puff the skirt out.

How did you like the HW with the new barrel or the rifle in general?
Click to expand...

PCP rifle accuracy reports on the internet are no doubt very much like accuracy reports for just about every rifle. They have to be regarded with caution. Like .22LR, ammo selection is just as important. I've read reports about PCP accuracy at long range that are incredible, quite literally. Quite often those reports outstrip practical experience with the rifle in hand.

The PCP air rifles that are used for competitive target shooting are generally much less powerful than those used for field target or for hunting. In any case, for best accuracy MV's should not exceed about 900 fps. Target air rifles such as single stroke pneumatics and "recoilless" springers like the FWB 300S usually have a MV in the 600 - 650 range maximum. It's not necessary to have more MV for 10 meter shooting. In the past it was advantageous for those with springers to use less power because they had less recoil, and now with PCP rifles a lower MV translates to more shots between cylinder fills. Lower power also means the rifle is quieter.

I have had the Air Arms S510 (I think that was the model) in .22. I also had two HW 100 rifles in .177 and .22 (to which I referred above). I very much preferred the German rifles to the English. What I especially liked about the Weihrauch rifles was that they had regulators. These regulators can be adjusted to alter the factory MV. I reduced the MV of the .177 HW 100 down to below 900 fps with 10.34 grain JSB heavy pellets. This help with accuracy (very fast pellets are not accurate) and it increased the shots per fill. This rifle was very accurate. I don't remember the details about the .22 as well as the .177, probably because it required less adjustment. In any case, the regulator is a big advantage because it keeps the MV consistent until the air in the reservoir falls below a certain pressure.

Although I'm not personally familiar with FX rifles, it's difficult to imagine inaccuracy at 10 meters unless there's something wrong with that individual rifle or very poor pellets are used. Before investing in another rifle I would be sure to contact the nice guys at Airgun Source, an FX dealer, to make enquiries and ask them for suggestions about causes of inaccuracy. FX rifles enjoy a very good reputation.

If I was going to buy a PCP rifle today, assuming there haven't been great changes since 2014 when I last used them, I would seriously consider a Weihrauch. They are built like a tank and are excellent rifles. I don't know if there is a chassis available for them.
 
I did talk to AGS and the response was … well... not helpful.

I think I'll enjoy the FX for a while then get the HW100. If the Hw100 is no worse, (accuracy wise) I'll be happy just to stop double loading pellets, but I expect it will be much better.

Funny, I was going to get the HW100 then a friend talked me into the FX. I should have trusted my instincts.
 
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Barfman said:
I've written a review about my FX Streamline in .22, and it is certainly something you would like. The accuracy and consistency it has provided after the initial 500 or so pellet break in is amazing. I have stuck with 15.9gr JSBs in 4.52. The 18.1gr shot a little less tight. I can regularly shoot extremely tight groups of 10 at 40 yards, 1/4" pretty much every time. At 100 yards, my best group was 3/8", although that was better than most. I generally will shoot sub 2 MOA at that range off a bench, but it definitely opens up as I increase the range.

That being said, my Steamline has a solid barrel and no shroud. Does your Dreamline just come with the barrel liner in a sleeve? Also, how many shots have you put through it? It took mine a while to stop throwing random fliers. The barrel wasn't seasoned properly for quite a few hundred rounds. Since that time, it has only improved. I'm around 5,000 pellet count.
Click to expand...

What kind of barrel did you install?
 
KDX said:
What kind of barrel did you install?
Click to expand...

It's just the stock barrel, an original smooth-twist. The first Streamlines that came in had no shroud, just the barrel threaded with 1/2" x 24 threads on the end.

As far as the HW100 goes, I've shot one of those and didn't find it superior to the FX off the bench. My main beef with the HW100 is the weight, given that I do quite a bit of FT shooting and small game hunting with it. I don't want to lug around a rifle that weighs so much. My Streamline in synthetic stock weighed in at a very acceptable 5.5 lbs. The HW100 is over 3 pounds heavier. I know that you're just doing some basement target shooting, so I doubt that's much of a consideration. If anything, a heavier rifle is preferable when shooting off a bench.
 
If only shooting at 10M, under 500fps. Why a 22?

I'm pretty sure the guys at FX designed the Dreamline to be used at higher fps. If your groups are so-so, chances are the pellet isn't stabilized...

The Steyr LGB1 is a great repeater, accurate at 10M, great trigger... but don't know of anyone making a chassis for it. And forget about bumping the velocity from 500fps to 800 fps
BIATHLON-ZILVER-LGB1.jpg
 
Barfman said:
As far as the HW100 goes, I've shot one of those and didn't find it superior to the FX off the bench. My main beef with the HW100 is the weight, given that I do quite a bit of FT shooting and small game hunting with it. I don't want to lug around a rifle that weighs so much. My Streamline in synthetic stock weighed in at a very acceptable 5.5 lbs. The HW100 is over 3 pounds heavier. I know that you're just doing some basement target shooting, so I doubt that's much of a consideration. If anything, a heavier rifle is preferable when shooting off a bench.
Click to expand...

PRS rifles are notoriously heavy, so the HW weight is beneficial for PRS motor skills training, which is what I'm doing.

A light rifle does not compress the bag, so it tends to wander and is hard to point. Heavy rifles just sit still resting on a bag in the center of gravity... that's what we want. So with this in mind the heavy HW is very welcome... I'll still probably add additional weight anyway.
 
Maple57 said:
PRS rifles are notoriously heavy, so the HW weight is beneficial for PRS motor skills training, which is what I'm doing.

A light rifle does not compress the bag, so it tends to wander and is hard to point. Heavy rifles just sit still resting on a bag in the center of gravity... that's what we want. So with this in mind the heavy HW is very welcome... I'll still probably add additional weight anyway.
Click to expand...

If you're going to purchase an HW, I would recommend also comparing and checking out the HW110, available from the Airgunforum store for $999. Seems like a really good deal.
 
Barfman said:
If you're going to purchase an HW, I would recommend also comparing and checking out the HW110, available from the Airgunforum store for $999. Seems like a really good deal.
Click to expand...

I've never seen one, but they look cheap to me based on the YouTube vids.

I already made the mistake of trying to get it done while saving a few bucks and I barely have mine sighted in and realized it was a mistake. (mistake for my needs... great rifle for hunters and plinkers)

I just want what will work for me the first time without going through a bunch of costly mistakes to get there in the end.

Besides... for my needs it needs to fit into an aftermarket tactical PRS style chassis (like Aeron or Jet Air) and I'm not aware of one for the HW110.

https://scandinavianairguns.com/shooting-gear/jet-air-chassis/
 
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