3 vs 3.5 shells - does it make any difference?

stubblejumper said:
I invest 6-8 hours of scouting every week, plus setup, and take down time, for our weekly goose hunt, and if I had to shoot 40 yards plus just to shoot a box of ammunition per year, I simply wouldn't bother hunting geese. Yes you will kill some geese at 50-70 yards, but you likely cripple as many as you recover shooting that far, to me, shooting that far, with such limited shot opportunity isn't worth the effort to me.
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It is all what you are familiar with. If it is all you have you get good at it since we don't have many hunting options down here
My old buds went about 8 times this year and got 6 geese between them did lose one but not from too long a shot from the tide taking the dead bird out to sea on them
Cheers
 
jrslv said:
Hi there.

I'm zooming in on a Mossberg 500 Pump Shotgun Combo. Since I'm new to hunting, I hope that getting 3 barrels in a single package will cover all my future needs: deer, turkey and waterfowl and everything in between. However, this gun can handle only 2 3/4" and 3" shells. I've read somewhere that since steel shot turned out to be less effective the larger 3.5" shells were introduced to the market.

But is it true? Do I really need 3.5" for waterfowl?

Thanks for all replies in advance.
Jaroslav
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No, you don't need 3.5, but yes, it does make a difference. Anyone who says otherwise is either lying to themselves or genuinely doesn't know. With one caveat of the requirement of patterning your gun. You gun might just plain old not like certain shells, or it may adore them. The pattern your gun shoots is of paramount importance.
 
I shoot 3.5 sometimes especially when hunting late season birds as their fat slows down shot and i go to bb and bbb. Also when hunting with newer hunters i am able to put down runners quicker if they make a wing shot. I find more of a benefit for the latter.
 
3macs1 said:
It is all what you are familiar with. If it is all you have you get good at it since we don't have many hunting options down here
My old buds went about 8 times this year and got 6 geese between them did lose one but not from too long a shot from the tide taking the dead bird out to sea on them
Cheers
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If we hunted 8 times for 6 geese, we would stop hunting them. It wouldn't be worth the effort and considerable expense we have invested. Our group of four averaged 26 geese per hunt last fall.
 
3.5" offers higher prices. More recoil. More muzzle blast. More muzzle rise. Slower follow up shots.
3" is just fine.
Only 3.5" shells i use now are 10ga.
I use mostly 2.75" shells for duck hunting. Sometimes 3" if im targeting more for geese as i use bbb for geese and 3" shells are easier to find than 2.75"

As for the 500 3 barrel itll get you going for turkey small game waterfowl and big game.
Last year majority of my turkey and small game hunting was done carrying only 2.5" shells. Pattern density is more important than shell length. Proper shooting accounts for more. Make sure the gun points where you look naturally. Match shot size to prey and enjoy
 
Just came back from Maryland.....one goose per day.

IMO, if you can't kill it with a 3" you probably aren't gonna kill it with a 3.5".
 
3macs1 said:
But they sure don't pattern worse. I shot a lot of paper when working the reloads for them
Have to try various chokes other than your gun came with
Cheers

AS they say. A standard 3-inch steel load contains 1 1/4 ounces of shot, while a standard 3 1/2-inch load has 1 9/16 ounces. That difference equates to roughly 22 more BBs, 39 more No. 2s or 60 more No. 4s. In lighter 3 1/2-inch loads of 1 1/2 ounces, the difference is about 18 more BBs, 31 more No. 2s and 48 more No. 4s. That can certainly make the difference between a hit and a miss or a cripple versus a clean kill.
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Yes but those extra bbs dont help a thing if there not inside that pattern. I've patterned about every 3 inch shell made in bb and a lot of them in 3.5. I seen no 3.5 that would beat my guns favorite 3 inch load. Same in bbb size. Equal to less hits in the 30 inch circle, and more blotchy uneven patterns. Regardless of the fact that more bbs went out the barrel. With way more recoil and cost.

Aftermarket choke companys agree. 3 inch pattern better for the most part. Heck I've even tried a few 2.75 that hang right with the best of them. Challengers for example have some that have 1.1/16 ounce of shot.

Yes the mossberg with the true 10 ga barrel and 10 ga will pattern 1.5 ounces of big shot well. But 12ga struggle due to a long out of square shot colum.

My favorite goose load for the big geese is a 1.25 ounce bbb at 1450 fps. It patterns 75% ave at 40 yards with nice even patterns. It kills well out to long range. I have also never found a bbb in a goose when cleaning. Bbs are found easier and #2 shot is common.
 
After testing several loads, in several chokes, I now use the #2 Fasteel 3" load that drives 1-1/8 ounces at 1560fps, in a Patternmaster choke. Yes the 1-1/8 load contains fewer pellets, but the patterns are better to 50 yards, than I see with the 1-1/4 ounce loads in my shotguns. I try to center the pattern on the head/neck area, as centering the pattern on the breast at 10-20 yards can pretty much destroy the bird.
 
prairie lover said:
Yes but those extra bbs dont help a thing if there not inside that pattern. I've patterned about every 3 inch shell made in bb and a lot of them in 3.5. I seen no 3.5 that would beat my guns favorite 3 inch load. Same in bbb size. Equal to less hits in the 30 inch circle, and more blotchy uneven patterns. Regardless of the fact that more bbs went out the barrel. With way more recoil and cost.

Aftermarket choke companys agree. 3 inch pattern better for the most part. Heck I've even tried a few 2.75 that hang right with the best of them. Challengers for example have some that have 1.1/16 ounce of shot.

Yes the mossberg with the true 10 ga barrel and 10 ga will pattern 1.5 ounces of big shot well. But 12ga struggle due to a long out of square shot colum.

My favorite goose load for the big geese is a 1.25 ounce bbb at 1450 fps. It patterns 75% ave at 40 yards with nice even patterns. It kills well out to long range. I have also never found a bbb in a goose when cleaning. Bbs are found easier and #2 shot is common.
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With how many different choke tubes I ask. Factory ones ?? expect to see what you do especially with factory ammo or at least when I bought it
If you reload your own steel with time and a lot of shooting and paper you can pretty much develop exactly what you want with the 3 1/2 especially if you cut your own wads as I do
LOL you have to waste some more money on tubes like I did over the years . Some of that cash burned up below :( Brileys work fine for me in my golds and 3 1/2 with RSI fast reloads. Mine also like duplex steel loads
All joking aside you are happy with your combination great but don't say one cannot get a 31/2 to pattern as well or better than a 3" since that is not true

Are any of you guys reloading steel?? If so what do you say or have seen. Also may not be a fair comparison since I am pretty sure all of my 3 1/2 guns are over bored barrels gold, sx2 & 3, a400, maxus but not as large as a 835

I have no idea what you are shooting
Cheers

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prairie lover said:
Yes but those extra bbs dont help a thing if there not inside that pattern. I've patterned about every 3 inch shell made in bb and a lot of them in 3.5. I seen no 3.5 that would beat my guns favorite 3 inch load. Same in bbb size. Equal to less hits in the 30 inch circle, and more blotchy uneven patterns. Regardless of the fact that more bbs went out the barrel. With way more recoil and cost.

Aftermarket choke companys agree. 3 inch pattern better for the most part. Heck I've even tried a few 2.75 that hang right with the best of them. Challengers for example have some that have 1.1/16 ounce of shot.

Yes the mossberg with the true 10 ga barrel and 10 ga will pattern 1.5 ounces of big shot well. But 12ga struggle due to a long out of square shot colum.

My favorite goose load for the big geese is a 1.25 ounce bbb at 1450 fps. It patterns 75% ave at 40 yards with nice even patterns. It kills well out to long range. I have also never found a bbb in a goose when cleaning. Bbs are found easier and #2 shot is common.
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I've found 3.5 BBB to pattern really well.
 
rkm456 said:
I've found 3.5 BBB to pattern really well.
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To me it is one of those things you cannot learn from others or the internet
You have to take your gun and tubes with various ammo and see what the paper looks like
I have found with reloading one can pretty much get what they want with enough trial and error and I cannot see why BBB 3 1/2 cannot perform very well as you say with the right combination
Like you mine do just fine. As good as my 10ga's nope but still just fine in the 12ga
Cheers
 
3" is fine most of the time.

I have a 3.5" Mossberg 535 (Your gun but chambered for 3.5") It's light and handy but if you shoot 3.5" you know it has gone off. (Though never noticed it hunting strangely)

My advice would be this.

Start with the 3" 500 and the combo you want.

If you find yourself doing an awful lot of goose shooting needing the bigger load either buy a goose gun or trade.

I'll also say this, having some overlap in your battery isn't a bad thing. If you have a problem with one gun, the other can step in and if you want to hunt with a buddy and need to loan him something, you can and neither of you will be using the wrong kit.

ATB,

Scrummy
 
I have a 3.5 but i dont see real advantages, on the deadvantages side recoil is violent. I am not fragile to recoil but this 3.5 is painfull.
 
canvasback said:
I'll leave iron cat to address the stationary target question.

Regarding grouse and partridge.......lets just say other game birds. There are vast differences in how easily different game birds die. Factors include general robustness, density of feathers, overall size. What this means in practice is that typically 1 or 2 pellets hits a ruffed grouse and that bird is falling from the sky. A pellet hits a pheasant and it's likely continuing on its way. At the other end of the spectrum I have unloaded 1 1/4 oz of lead into the body of a turkey at 35-40 yards and watched it fly away. (early in my turkey hunting days). A teal will die more easily than a mallard. Geese are tougher than ducks because they are bigger. Pheasant harder to kill than sharp tailed grouse. Hungarians and quail fall rather easily. You need to know your quarry.

3 1/2" shells out of a cylinder bore sounds like a recipe for lots of birds wounded at 35 yards. Learn to shoot. Learn the appropriate loads and distances for the quarry. Learn to pick your shots. Don't just walk out there and start blasting. I don't have a single 3" or 3 1/2" chambered shotgun. And i have lots of shotguns. I'm never "handicapped" by chamber size.
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Like Canvasback I have many shotguns ,and only 1 has a 3" chamber . I have never shot any 3" shells in it. I would quickly but a shotgun
with a 3" or 3 1/2" chambler if I thought I needed it . I don't need it.
 
3macs1 said:
With how many different choke tubes I ask. Factory ones ?? expect to see what you do especially with factory ammo or at least when I bought it
If you reload your own steel with time and a lot of shooting and paper you can pretty much develop exactly what you want with the 3 1/2 especially if you cut your own wads as I do
LOL you have to waste some more money on tubes like I did over the years . Some of that cash burned up below :( Brileys work fine for me in my golds and 3 1/2 with RSI fast reloads. Mine also like duplex steel loads
All joking aside you are happy with your combination great but don't say one cannot get a 31/2 to pattern as well or better than a 3" since that is not true

Are any of you guys reloading steel?? If so what do you say or have seen. Also may not be a fair comparison since I am pretty sure all of my 3 1/2 guns are over bored barrels gold, sx2 & 3, a400, maxus but not as large as a 835

I have no idea what you are shooting
Cheers

77EpCi8.jpg
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I've tried factory, Carlson's and patternmaster. I like the carlsons and the big shot likes imp cylender. Yes I could see reloading improve patterns cause you get to change about everything about the load. I have been tempted a few times to get into it but I just dlnt have the time.
 
prairie lover said:
I've tried factory, Carlson's and patternmaster. I like the carlsons and the big shot likes imp cylender. Yes I could see reloading improve patterns cause you get to change about everything about the load. I have been tempted a few times to get into it but I just dlnt have the time.
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Yes it sure did take a lot of time to get me where I am and a ton of money. I started reloading steel the year after it was mandatory and could not even count what I tried but now that I have what works for me I have not tried anything else
Dead is dead IMO
How far back well Hummasons was making and selling steel shot. That was not yesterday LOL
Take care
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1963beretta said:
As Cat mentioned, there is nothing stationary when decoying birds other than the decoys themselves. Birds are still flying, but usually at closer distances and slower.

As for upland birds...I don't know anyone who uses anything larger than 2.75”. Most people use smaller shot sizes in 2.75” shells. I like to use 1oz #6 and have used target loads. 3” and 3.5” shells were not intended for upland hunting unless you hunting turkeys
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for grouse and ptarmigan we use 2.75 and 7 or 7.5 target loads and it is working great even for the flying ones.

now on the geese and ducks i do not understand the rush on 3 when 3.5 or even 10 gauges are available but for me 3 and a 12 ga is enough will see how the hatsan will work this year.
 
medvedqc said:
for grouse and ptarmigan we use 2.75 and 7 or 7.5 target loads and it is working great even for the flying ones.

now on the geese and ducks i do not understand the rush on 3 when 3.5 or even 10 gauges are available but for me 3 and a 12 ga is enough will see how the hatsan will work this year.
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Next season cant come soon enough. Your new gun will bag you lots of birds!

I like using 7.5 Winchester AA’s sporting clays shells for upland bird hunting. But I do go up to 6 shot in either 1oz or 1 1/8oz when shooting pheasants, but I never buy the expensive upland shells that cost $30/box. I usually just buy the cheap Federal Game-shok shells
 
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