Bolt vs Semi for Moose/Deer hunting

GANDERITE said:
When hunting it is not unusual to hear someone else shoot. When I hear one shot, and maybe another a minute later, i know someone scored.

When I hear 3 or 4 or 5 shots in a row, I know someone missed.
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Or there is a few on the ground....

I've been both of those guys before.... which leads me to my next comment.

GANDERITE said:
With a semi auto I find myself thinking of the second shot before I fire the first. dumb, eh?
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I found the same thing when I was younger carrying my lever rifle...
On more than one occasion when I was a kid did a dump a whole tube into trees... (and the odd one into an animal)
The first time I did this, the dogger came out and asked me which one i hit, and I didnt know. I was shooting at both animals as they ran by, and didnt focus on one... I wanted em both...
That day, i learned to shoot one until it goes down before you go one ot a next. Man did I take a ribbing.

I couldnt use a peep sight than. I was use to using opensights, and was told I needed a peep.
And no one took the time to show me how. I could hit targets on paper, but couldnt hit an animal.
Long since resolved, but I lost confidence in my 30-30 for a while...
I put a scout mount on my rifle, and solved that problem.

on a sidenote.


the only shots I've fired on game with a semi (centrefire rifle) all landed on target.
 
GANDERITE;1658418 [B said:
When I hear 3 or 4 or 5 shots in a row, I know someone misse[/B]d.

This is because I am a good shot
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Well good for you :rolleyes:

Aren't we all a good shot

If some-one like you walks out after I'm done shooting & spews that stuff....
I say....
Would you like to gut those other two over there you didn't see :rolleyes::D
 
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Or you need to hunt with guys that don't shoot your deer.

But if you here a string of shots followed by a pause (mag change) and another string the only thing the guys got is a warm barrel and ringing ears.

Though I can tell you my first deer (@17) between 2 of us had 13 rounds fired at it and 2 lung hits.
 
Senior miss-quoted me and wrote:
When I hear 3 or 4 or 5 shots in a row, I know someone missed.

This is because I am a good shot
Well good for you

Aren't we all a good shot

What I actually posted was:
“One of the rifles I carry is a Martini Enfield in 45-70. (A single shot). It is topped with a 3X scope. If you hear it there is an excellent chance I scored.

This is because I am a good shot and I know I have to make the first shot count.”

I stand by what I wrote because it is my honest opinion. I was not bragging but trying to explain where I was coming from. I think I take more care with the first shot with a single shot rifle.

As for your “Aren't we all a good shot” comment, no, we are not all good shots. I am very good with a rifle, pretty good with a pistol and terrible with a shot gun.

My expertise comes from a lot of practice. Thousands of rounds per year. I fill garbage cans with empties. I test ammo for an ammo company and have done some work with a well known rifle company. In addition I shoot for my own pleasure and have been fortunate enough to been able to make shooting a priority in my life.

I know for a fact that some of the guys in our hunt camp have not fired their rifle from one year to the next.
I have had the occasion to be invited to Rod and Gun clubs to give a lecture on shooting and gun cleaning and then supervise a sight in clinic.
I have seen rifles that have not been cleaned since the day they were purchased.

I recall suggesting a rear sight adjustment and being told “Don’t touch the sight. It was set at the factory.” (I have worked with a factory and no, they are not adjusted in any way.)

I recall a guy setting up a 2 foot square of plywood at 30 yards and then missing it with a SMLE sporter. I could see the bullets hitting in front. When I suggested an adjustment, he just walked away and said “Moose are big.”
I wish I had a dollar for every guy I saw flinching so badly he could not hit the target.

So, no, we are not all good shots, but I am pretty good and think I am even better when I carry a single shot and I think I am worse when I carry a semi.
YMMV
 
I recall suggesting a rear sight adjustment and being told “Don’t touch the sight. It was set at the factory.”

Makes me remember a funny one,
watched a guy shoot at a target & was hitting 9" to the left consistantly, when he was was done & I had a little screwdriver in hand so I asked if he'd like it to move the rear site, he said "No, I'll just aim a little to the right" :rolleyes:


Apoligize for the misquote, This is because I am a good shot and I know I have to make the first shot count.” it does change the context of your meaning.
But I don't think the type of action you have will make the quality of your first shot different unless you let it.
 
I'm a die hard semi-auto fan, and I shot my moose this year with a garand (one shot bang-flop through the heart), but I can tell you that a young or inexperienced shooter can be tempted to think one or two bullets ahead of himself, and it is usually worse with a semi. It's not any fault of the action, it's just a mental thing. I've seen it happen with guys shooting pumps with removable mags as well. Good shooting and hunting skills will overcome this, and experience helps as well.

I love a semi for a bunch of reasons, but primarily beacuse a semi lets you get off a better second shot (if needed) than any other action. Not having to completely lose your sight picture to work an action, and waste about two extra seconds getting another round in the chamber, means you can focus completely on the shot and not the rifle. I know guys love thier bolts, but... I can't help but think that all other actions, except the single shot (for guys who go hunting with one round, 'cause they always kill everything with one shot) were basically made obsolete when the first reliable semis hit the market early in the last century.
 
I have to agree with Northman, don't blame an action type on the actions of a few. Second shots are a reality sometimes for us regular human hunters, until I morph into an "expert" I like having the option of a fast follow up. And all the "experts" I have had the pleasure? of meeting are the same guys that seem to have a problem with estimating distance (150m = 300m type thing). And the guys I respect, in the field, in the shop and at work would NEVER call themselves "experts"
 
Kinda funny when I was in the army and before we even got to look at the C7 they taught us our clearing drills. They did this because they new that sooner or latter the C7 was going to malfunction. Mind you we shot it full auto too, but it still malfunctioned in semi mode. There is nothing wrong with a semi, I usd to take my AG 42B moose hunting all the time. I still believe bolt guns are more reliable.

As for follow up shots. I have seen guys who do magic with there bolts and would say that they would only be a fraction of a second behind an auto for a second shot.

I don't think the type of action you have will make the quality of your first shot different unless you let it
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I like this statement, too bad a lot of people rely on their second shot
 
if you read the whole statement and put some thought into it cdngunner you would understand the reason for the number of shots. To clarify for you I will explain it in more detail. My "buddy's" first shot set it running, me shooting through some brush because I wasn't quite in position. And I don't know if you have ever had rounds go by you WHILE trying to hit a moving target. Try it sometime. And out of those 3 shots I fired the first was a clean miss, the second was the kill and the last was insurance.
 
John Y Cannuck said:
When I hear several shots, it's the speed of the shots that tell if they hit or missed.
Semi-auto guys (or anyone else for that matter) who think they've got a machine gun, rarely connect.
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That is absolutely true!
Regardless of the action type, you need a second to get on target.
I've heard bolt guys that I thought musta been using an auto.
When you hear one piece of brass clanging on another on the way to the ground :rolleyes:


hmmm

you regularly use that many shots or are you trying to tenderize it before you clean it

As JYC alluded to in another thread there are instances where best advice is to shoot till it's down.
 
If anyone is interested in seeing my complete post that cdngunner picked one line from it is in the hunting forum, under finding a hunting partner. Between that post and the one above I think most people will understand the situation I was in. To answer the inevitable question "why didn't you let the buck go and go beat the snot out of your buddy" lets just say I wasn't going to miss the opportunity to get a very nice 4 point, bullets cracking by or not :)
 
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senior said:
As JYC alluded to in another thread there are instances where best advice is to shoot till it's down.
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Isnt that how #### chayne(sp???) shot his friend in the face. :D


KLAUS. you missed the smilee I guess. no wonder you need that many shots for a deer:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:50cal:
 
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Senior wrote "But I don't think the type of action you have will make the quality of your first shot different unless you let it."

That was the point I was making. I find that when I carry a semi it DOES change the quality of my first shot. It is a mental thing. I wish it did not change my mental attitude, but it does.

Maybe with more practice I will get over it.

Shooting is very much a affected by our mental attitude. In fact, at the world class level, mental attitude is what separates the winners from the also rans. Top level teams in many sports, including shooting, use sports psychologists to train athletes how to focus effectivly.
 
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