Estimating lead on running game?
- Thread starter Grizzlypeg
- Start date
That theoretical lead formula requires a stationary rifle, moving target and zero reaction time to work. That isn't quite the way it happens though.
Game is shot with a moving firearm which does a number of things. The swinging gun cancels the reaction time and introduces a vector into the equation. This horizontal component coresponds to the amount of distance the bullet moved in the plane of target movement while it was still in the barrel arc, and is heavily dependant on swing speed. That drift doesn't go away during bullet flight, and given that the distance to the target is significant it amounts to a lot of automatic lead. A fast swinger with a shotgun can kill a lot of birds without ever seeing any lead at all. I seldom lead more than the front edge of a moving animal with a rifle until the range gets out to 150 yards or so, or I'll shoot in front of everything. The calculated theoretical lead has to be there, but part of it comes from hidden sources. Actual lead comes pretty close to half of theoretical lead in practice.
Game is shot with a moving firearm which does a number of things. The swinging gun cancels the reaction time and introduces a vector into the equation. This horizontal component coresponds to the amount of distance the bullet moved in the plane of target movement while it was still in the barrel arc, and is heavily dependant on swing speed. That drift doesn't go away during bullet flight, and given that the distance to the target is significant it amounts to a lot of automatic lead. A fast swinger with a shotgun can kill a lot of birds without ever seeing any lead at all. I seldom lead more than the front edge of a moving animal with a rifle until the range gets out to 150 yards or so, or I'll shoot in front of everything. The calculated theoretical lead has to be there, but part of it comes from hidden sources. Actual lead comes pretty close to half of theoretical lead in practice.
We have Running deer and Boar at Bisley, I once managed 4th place. A kiwi mate took to it as if he was Walter Winnans after I complained he took to long over a shot (he is a great match rifleman). Kiwi got to 4 shots on target per run, next deer outing he clocks a Fallow Pricket in the head as it was running downhill at a cross angle towards him! He aimed for the chest and hit the only buck in a herd of 8 Does!
Good point
All that yappin about what gun is best for bear defence but none have them have enough inteligence to figure out if you can't hit it gun size means nothing
In their position I'd be too afraid for my own life to even go hunting if I wasn't confident in my own skill to protect myself
Back to the lead question..many good points brought up, lack of reaction time in the formulas being one of the ones that sticks out in my mind. As JCannuck says you kinda have to get a feel for it with practice, much like shooting clays. As a general rule thou, vertically under his nose is very close when they're out there 50-75yds, I generally would say for really up close a vertical line up the front of it's chest ill put you in the money.
I don't know where your located but a lot of Fish & Game clubs in central Ont have running deer tartgets. You could ask around, I'm sure you could get an invite to use one
I guess if you consider shooting a standing deer ethical and sporting.
Over here its the considered way to take deer, unaware that they are even watched let alone shot at! The skill being in the stalk, knowing the species and the shot being just 10% of a good stalk. Carcase handling here now has been elevated to a level where if you intend it to enter the sales chain as food then you have to pass an exam on diseases and meat handling, they call it the trained hunter. I cant be bothered as I eat all of mine or give to friends so I am exempt! I do often have clients with me who have passed the exam and one is also a Doctor! Makes me lazy.
I don't remember the reason we got on the topic of hitting a moving animal. It's a whole bunch of theoretical bull#### really, but the math is right. I don't concern myself with worrying about it and only posted it because someone had asked the question.
FWIW the way that I hunt, I only shoot animals that are walking or standing. I mainly stand-hunt and watch travel corridors, call bull moose, stalk feeding black bears etc... The animals don't even know I am there.
I really don't have any interest in shooting at running game, other then the BS session that produced the spread sheet I referenced.
Demonical.
FWIW the way that I hunt, I only shoot animals that are walking or standing. I mainly stand-hunt and watch travel corridors, call bull moose, stalk feeding black bears etc... The animals don't even know I am there.
I really don't have any interest in shooting at running game, other then the BS session that produced the spread sheet I referenced.
Demonical.
TimC, good post. the first two lines sum up the whole thing. While there can be times when a running shot is required it's only a last resort. Of the 25-30 Deer I've taken only 3 were running. All 3 went straight down ( I use enough gun ) Two were over 100 yds. We choose not to shoot running game, doesn't mean we can't hit them. Humane kills, ethics?
Thanks MTM, I often take out clients stalking who are complete novices, its better for thos to see deer and stalk up close than to just sit tight and bag a big buck on day 1. If they do get one then great, I do however suffer from experts who have taken all the courses yet are seemingly incapable of taking instruction. I used to hunt terrorists so I still remember how to walk quietly through woods. It really is amazing jow many cant!
I am happy to be out in the woods at Dawn even if I see nothing that I want to shoot its the freedom of being there with nature that really lifts your day before work! The downside is you can be very tired all day and I have been known to do an evening stalk after work and get into a high seat for a snooze!
I am happy to be out in the woods at Dawn even if I see nothing that I want to shoot its the freedom of being there with nature that really lifts your day before work! The downside is you can be very tired all day and I have been known to do an evening stalk after work and get into a high seat for a snooze!
;1671526 said:
There's that magic ethics again
If we applied the ethics some guys are spouting I'd guess duck hunting would come to a halt wouldn't it?? How often do you see a duck die instantly every shot or do you just shoot standing or walking ducks
& how about long range ground hog hunting, everyone can guarranty a perfectly clean hit at 300+yds everytime
See this guy-->
he has two faces too Everybody shoots with intentions of a good clean kill!
Practice makes for better shots, if you can't or won't then just what gives you the right to such opinions
I generally agree with you, but I have watched a single wolf ham-string a deer on the ice & wait for it to weaken, then start to eat with-out killing it.
I will give some animals the same respect as they show!
Nope, that would have to be an instantaneous guesstimate by the shooter... same as the guesstimate as to the correct lead.
I went on an antelope hunt years ago, down by Mannyberries, Alberta. I was in a huge field and a herd of antelope ran by me about 100 yards away. There was 1 buck that I took a couple of shots at, and I remember attempting to lead it. I was shooting about 5' in front of it I guess and missed it. I suppose I was likely not holding far enough in front. I don't remember (common theme) but maybe that was the reason we got into this running target BS.
But other then that antelope I have never shot at running game and don't intend to start any time soon.
Hunting techniques can vary greatly with region. In some of the wide open areas I hunt, after a certain hour of the day, the only action is created by having a group push the bush, to flush up some action. This generally results in running deer as the only opportunity, and thus my question. I've never heard of anyone stalking bedded deer in thick brush. They'd stand up and run before you got close enough to see them.
I appreciate the theoretical and the tales of experience, so keep em coming.
I appreciate the theoretical and the tales of experience, so keep em coming.
Grizz' I've never been involved in a deer push in my life. To each his own. I've watched movies from Sask with guys pushing "bluffs" and deer racing out. I don't know how the hell anybody could hit them.
Milo Hanson shot the World Record Whitetail on a push.
My brother lives and hunts moose down near Drayton Valley. In the farming country they do drives in the bush blocks and are always successful at pushing out moose (plus deer). Hitting a large-bodied, relatively slow moving moose has to be a lot easier then a deer!!
We're going moose hunting again and there's nothing more fun then calling a big bull* out to 30-40 yards and shooting them.
* I suppose calling a bull elk would be as much fun...
Milo Hanson shot the World Record Whitetail on a push.
My brother lives and hunts moose down near Drayton Valley. In the farming country they do drives in the bush blocks and are always successful at pushing out moose (plus deer). Hitting a large-bodied, relatively slow moving moose has to be a lot easier then a deer!!
We're going moose hunting again and there's nothing more fun then calling a big bull* out to 30-40 yards and shooting them.
* I suppose calling a bull elk would be as much fun...
