RDB chambering

Milofficer said:
From discussions I've had with the gunsmith at Vault Distribution (the official Canadian importer), all of the Canadian market .223 rifles (RDB and SU-16) are marked and chambered for .223 Remington. It's a US Export thing, and the gunsmith told me that the customer service reps at Kel-Tec unfortunately pass on incorrect information that they are 'the same barrels with different markings'. He was very clear that the Canadian market barrels have .223 chambers.
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Here's the thing. There IS no difference in the chamber dimensions between .223 and 5.56, except the "lead in" to the rifling is longer in 5.56. Not an issue. If you're reloading using a case that has been full length resized the case will free spin in the chamber. If you are running really hot reloaded ammo (which would be higher than 5.56 Nato anyways) you probably need a longer lead in if you're having high pressure issues. But this is for reloading purposes, not factory loaded ammo. EVERY single European gun is designed to handle the full pressure 5.56 Nato ammo (they do not differentiate between 5.56 and .223 so they treat them as interchangeable cartridges). For American guns, the only time I've had a manufacturer tell me not to use 5.56 in a .223 gun; are bolt action rifles with tight match chambers, as this can cause overpressure issues.

SAAMI specifications. There is a minimum radius requirement on 5.56 cases to handle the higher pressure (NOTE this is only for the brass case, not the chamber itself). You can open both the images up and flip back and forth between them.

.223 Remington
.223_Remington.jpg


5.56x45mm Nato
5.56x45mm_NATO.jpg


This is a comparison of the differences in the case.
556-vs-223-leade-chamber-throat.jpg
 
Jaylegger said:
That comparison does not depict the difference in the case of the two calibers, that depicts the difference in the freebore and throat angle/length spec's between the two barrels.
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*sigh* so just ignore everything that I said, and point out that I was talking about the throat (the only difference).

right from Sierra's website:

Physically these two cartridges are identical with only the headstamp alluding to anything being different.
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First line in the article from Sierra.
https://sierrabulletsblog.com/2016/03/02/5-56-and-223-remington/

And yes, you will see there are a few differences in the ten thousanths range, this is usually because of rounding up/down from metric to imperial. They also state the difference in chamber pressure.

.223 Remington Chamber detail:
223-remington.jpg


5.56x45mm Nato: chamber detail:
5-56nato.jpg


Now I've already spent more time than I care to on this. If a bullet manufacturer in the Unites States has an article on their website stating it's safe to use 5.56 in a .223 gun (and the liability that comes with that) then I would say there is a 100% chance it's safe to do so.
 
Milofficer said:
.. all of the Canadian market .223 rifles (RDB and SU-16) are marked and chambered for .223 Remington. It's a US Export thing, and the gunsmith told me that the customer service reps at Kel-Tec unfortunately pass on incorrect information that they are 'the same barrels with different markings'. He was very clear that the Canadian market barrels have .223 chambers.
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What "export thing" exactly? "5.56" marked barrels are illegal to export? Are you suggesting that NS and IRG "illegally" exporting their RDBs from USA? Because those two importers sell "5.56" marked RDBs.
 
Horilka said:
What "export thing" exactly? "5.56" marked barrels are illegal to export? Are you suggesting that NS and IRG "illegally" exporting their RDBs from USA? Because those two importers sell "5.56" marked RDBs.
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They are bringing US market firearms over the border, that's all I know. I never suggested they were doing it illegally since I am not an expert - I simply repeated what I was told. That being said, KelTec is fully aware of the problem and has issued an official letter to that effect (ht tp://www.vaultdistribution.com/grey-market-guns)

A relevant section in the letter is:
KelTec manufactures Canadian-specific models exclusively for Vault. Any KelTec products that have been brought into Canada outside of Vault have not been approved for sale in the Canadian territory. Please know that many of these grey market firearms have been modified independent of our knowledge and approval and will not be covered under our lifetime warranty as a result.
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I don't know who still believes in "grey market" BS, there's nothing "grey" from the legal point of view. So I always skeptical towards companies and distributors who take advantage over geographical regions just because they CAN get more profit there, not because of real financial costs incurred. Vault/KT are not exception. I'm also very skeptical to say the least about "export thing" and "have been modified". I'm not aware about any export limitations and I'm not aware about any modification to RDBs imported by NS and IRG, internally and externally they look 100% as what is sold in US.
 
Milofficer said:
When it comes to a warranty, the grey market distinction is still very relevant.
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How else they would convince customers to pay more? Still with other importers manufacturer warranty for original buyer is also available despite quoted claim. I speak from personal experience.
 
Horilka said:
How else they would convince customers to pay more? Still with other importers manufacturer warranty for original buyer is also available despite quoted claim. I speak from personal experience.
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Clearly that depends on the manufacturer and how they want to set up their distribution and warranty arrangements. Some brands like Glock have just given up altogether because there are multiple distributors and a prolific grey market. Smaller brands like KelTec, who are trying to extend their lifetime warranty program to the Canadian market, clearly care about the grey market. It costs money to support and repair a product. Obviously a grey market gun can be cheaper because the importer isn't going to support it after the sale - they just want a quick buck.

And sure, clearly there are people like yourself that aren't bothered by it and just want to pay the cheapest possible price. And that's fine - that's your choice. Spend your money how you see fit.
 
Guns brought in through Vault are warrantied in Canada by Vault.

Guns brought in through IRG are warrantied by the actual Keltec factory in Florida.

So in other words; You have BETTER warranty coverage if you buy from IRG.
 
Milofficer said:
Clearly that depends on the manufacturer and how they want to set up their distribution and warranty arrangements. Some brands like Glock have just given up altogether because there are multiple distributors and a prolific grey market. Smaller brands like KelTec, who are trying to extend their lifetime warranty program to the Canadian market, clearly care about the grey market. It costs money to support and repair a product. Obviously a grey market gun can be cheaper because the importer isn't going to support it after the sale - they just want a quick buck.

And sure, clearly there are people like yourself that aren't bothered by it and just want to pay the cheapest possible price. And that's fine - that's your choice. Spend your money how you see fit.
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I know at least about three companies that import KT to Canada - Vault, NS and IRG. All three provide warranty service. So all three have costs associated and this cost is reflected in final price of the product. It's up the the business how to deal with service issue, Vault seems to offer local service, IRG sends back to original manufacturer. I would prefer latter, though it's more time consuming.
 
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