Mannlicher Schonauer 1903 carbine - photo heavy

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geologist

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I just received my M-S 1903 carbine in 6.5x54 M-S. Thanks to Gunnut nicholasbarton!

I have wanted one since 1979 when I first read "Islands in the Stream".

The rifle is also famous for it's use by WDM Karamojo Bell in East Africa. It accounted for 300-400 of his 1100 elephant kills.

It is very slim and light at 5 1/2 lbs.

I will need some ammo and a period correct sling.

The Akah 6x42 scope is a little too far back for me and I will adjust it. The Akah scope mount looks like it is a screw clamp on and not a swing on claw mount. Anyone with advice on this mount, I would apprciate advice on how to take it off as I plan to run the carbine with just the irons (100/300 yard leafs).

The rear sling stud is a little loose and I will glue it in place with carpenters glue.

The 2 position wing safety is stiff but it may get easier to use once the scope is gone.

The cleaning rod is long gone but I was expecting that.

The button on the right side of the magazine well releases the loaded cartridges in the rotary magazine.

This is bringing out my inner Hemingway..................

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It looks like a claw mounted scope..... There is a catch in the back scope mount to engage and you should be able to tilt the scope up and forward to disengage the front claws.
Or -- it is hard to see on your pictures,..... the rear catch, when operated, may allow the scope to swing to the side and the front mount may be a pivot type of mount.
By the looks of it, after that, you should have a clean sight line for the irons.
I love these rifles.
In my experience they just love the longer heavier (140 - 160gr round nose for an example) bullets.
Another load with 130 gr TSX is wonderful as well.
 
That is a beauty!
No idea about that mount but it does look like a claw-mount.
Those old Mannlicher's are such a joy to carry & shoot. I bet it feels like a completely different rifle with the scope removed.

Rob
 
farshot said:
It looks like a claw mounted scope..... There is a catch in the back scope mount to engage and you should be able to tilt the scope up and forward to disengage the front claws.
Or -- it is hard to see on your pictures,..... the rear catch, when operated, may allow the scope to swing to the side and the front mount may be a pivot type of mount.
By the looks of it, after that, you should have a clean sight line for the irons.
I love these rifles.
In my experience they just love the longer heavier (140 - 160gr round nose for an example) bullets.
Another load with 130 gr TSX is wonderful as well.
Click to expand...

You can see through the mounts and use the irons with the scope mounted.

Left side.

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Right side.

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Rear mount from left side.

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Push that stud (the knurled one with the cross slot in it) at the rear to the rear and it should release the rear mount claws to pivot up and out.
It appears to have an extra rear spacer plate on top of that rear mount.
Someone may have been treating that stud like a screw, so it may be loose.......if it doesn't release you may wish to try screwing it in snug or out a bit and keep trying to find where it was meant to sit.

That scope of course only has up and down adjustment in its turret. Right to left is by loosening and tightening the opposite screws at the rear mount to push the rear of the scope to one side.
The trouble is that the front of that mount does not rotate (much if at all) so you bend the scope a bit..some relief is by the front scope mount screws-- loosening and tightening. Sometimes it is best to find the load that matches where it is set and leave it alone.

Again, in my experience, these old gals preferred heavy for bore, shorter bullets and with original moderate velocities, good for accuracy and penetration.
They usually don't like light bullets at high speeds. It wasn't the thing back then.
The mag dictates the round length so do not expect to use long pointy bullets with boat tails. Once you find the sweet spot, it wont move and the rifle is happy.
 
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Nice rifle, I sure like mine, I would like to find a griffin and Howl, side mount, but they difficult to find, and I gave up, Now that I have it dialed in, with a load, for the irons, I've no desire to scope it,
trade ex has brass, and normally PPU ammo, dies are readily aviable.

160 gr Hornardy round nose bullets, work great.

My load is 6.5x54 ppu brass, H4350 37.5 gr, gold primer, 160gr Hornardy and OAL of 76mm. this puts me dead on with the irons, at both 100m and 200m, for the flip up 2nd leaf.
 
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I had one of those excellent 6.5x54 MS Rifles when I was a reasonably new hunter.
Shot the Dominion 160 KKSP load, which was surprisingly accurate.

I hunted only Mule deer with it, and took 3 in total. I did not recover one bullet, even
from a full bodied Shuswap Muley Buck. It killed deer like lightning though. IIRC, the
advertised velocity was a mild 2160 fps, but you could have fooled the deer, lol.

Great acquisition, OP. :) Dave.
 
farshot said:
Push that stud (the knurled one with the cross slot in it) at the rear to the rear and it should release the rear mount claws to pivot up and out.
It appears to have an extra rear spacer plate on top of that rear mount.
Someone may have been treating that stud like a screw, so it may be loose.......if it doesn't release you may wish to try screwing it in snug or out a bit and keep trying to find where it was meant to sit.

That scope of course only has up and down adjustment in its turret. Right to left is by loosening and tightening the opposite screws at the rear mount to push the rear of the scope to one side.
The trouble is that the front of that mount does not rotate (much if at all) so you bend the scope a bit..some relief is by the front scope mount screws-- loosening and tightening. Sometimes it is best to find the load that matches where it is set and leave it alone.

Again, in my experience, these old gals preferred heavy for bore, shorter bullets and with original moderate velocities, good for accuracy and penetration.
They usually don't like light bullets at high speeds. It wasn't the thing back then.
The mag dictates the round length so do not expect to use long pointy bullets with boat tails. Once you find the sweet spot, it wont move and the rifle is happy.
Click to expand...

The stud doesn't move. It screws over a spring onto a fixed threaded screw. I've removed the stud and spring and have oiled the inside, letting it sit and wil re-assemble.
 
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Does the stud pull out (when assembled)? I have not seen one that operates like that but...
I am guessing that that plate between the base and the claw piece is making it real stiff. I would consider a light, direct tap on the stud with a small brass hammer. I have several that have a similar rear arrangement, but you can see a plate / seam that slides backwards with the pressing of the stud. That interior sliding plate is what holds the claw. I dont see that seam on yours, but maybe a slider can be seen on the backside of the base?

It is possible that in its history the device was locked in somehow.

Looking at your side view picture, does the head of the stud run into the leading edge of that middle plate? That plate may be stopping the stud from being depressed. As I said, that mid plate/spacer is unusual as traditionally, the upper part with the claws mates to the lower base directly.
 
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SHELL SHUCKER said:
Lovely stalking rife OP. Quality like that would cost a bundle these days. Can't fault the 6.5 MS as a game taker when loaded with the 160 gr bullets at factory velocities. Excellent score. :cool:

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2015/5/15/handloading-the-65x54-mm-mannlicher-schoenauer/
Click to expand...

;)Gotta' agree:). The Mannlicher/full wood style in my safe at present are more along the 'line' of a pair of Zastava's and a Lipsey Ruger. A different value/quality line but even so, I'm content with what I have, for shooters:).
 
farshot said:
Does the stud pull out (when assembled)? I have not seen one that operates like that but...
I am guessing that that plate between the base and the claw piece is making it real stiff. I would consider a light, direct tap on the stud with a small brass hammer. I have several that have a similar rear arrangement, but you can see a plate / seam that slides backwards with the pressing of the stud. That interior sliding plate is what holds the claw. I dont see that seam on yours, but maybe a slider can be seen on the backside of the base?

It is possible that in its history the device was locked in somehow.

Looking at your side view picture, does the head of the stud run into the leading edge of that middle plate? That plate may be stopping the stud from being depressed. As I said, that mid plate/spacer is unusual as traditionally, the upper part with the claws mates to the lower base directly.
Click to expand...

I tried to pull it just now (brilliant!) but it won't budge. I may screw up my courage and tap it with a brass hammer. Lightly :).
 
one other thing.....my stud does not have a screw slot, maybe the screw slot indicates that the screw depth/setting somehow locks the device?
 
farshot said:
one other thing.....my stud does not have a screw slot, maybe the screw slot indicates that the screw depth/setting somehow locks the device?
Click to expand...

I've tried pulling and pushing it at at least three points along the studs screw in depths and no luck.

Hacksaw?.........................

If worst comes to worst I could always try to unscrew the rear mount from the split receiver.
 
dont cut it!
If you can get a good screw driver at the 2 screws holding the rear base on, I would.
I would give those screws a touch of heat, just to break them free if they were glued.
BTW, I have worked on more than several of these in my past, and never had this issue.
 
farshot said:
dont cut it!
If you can get a good screw driver at the 2 screws holding the rear base on, I would.
I would give those screws a touch of heat, just to break them free if they were glued.
BTW, I have worked on more than several of these in my past, and never had this issue.
Click to expand...

I know, I was kidding. I went out and bought new gun socks for it to keep it protected from kisses in the safe............

I have a Pachmayer gunsmith screwdriver set that I use only on my guns. But some of these old slot screws, like the main screw through the forend into the base of the receiver have really narrow slots. Narrower than my Pachmayer slot tips.

It is a 1903 rifle, I will be patient and careful.
 
LoL, I knew you were kidding.
I was going to say, when working on euro guns, most have thin slot screws. Brownells sells thin slot bits that are very very worth it.
or grind your own to fit.
This one puzzles me.....I will look at a couple more to see if I have one like yours...with the slotted knob.
 
I have the exact same scope mount on my MS. The stud you are trying without success to push in IS made to push in, so yours must be seized. Once pushed in ( rearwards) the claws on the rear scope mount should release and the scope may be tipped up in an arc forwards and the scope removed. Try Kroil, it's the best product I have found to creep into rusty seized parts and release them.
 
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