Lol, longstuds vudoo was something special to shoot, but if I came home with that kind of rig the boys would be in a sling and I would be finding another home. So I thought about it but where do you store the vudoo when you live on the street lol
Fun stuff that wont break your piggy bank, REALLY ?
- Thread starter Gillis2
- Start date
I was happiest when my ONLY .22 was a Cooey tube magger. Ammo was generally "Canuck" and what ever was cheapest.
Many grouse fell to that rifle, all head shots. We envied the kids with the Remington and Winchester semis, but we out shot them all.
There used to be a lot of adult .22 shooting with the DCRA. Rifles were the bolt action repeaters of the day and the shooters were generally middle aged.
Shooting the Lee-Enfield Cadet .22s and my highschool Win M52s was tripping the light fantastic.
Many grouse fell to that rifle, all head shots. We envied the kids with the Remington and Winchester semis, but we out shot them all.
There used to be a lot of adult .22 shooting with the DCRA. Rifles were the bolt action repeaters of the day and the shooters were generally middle aged.
Shooting the Lee-Enfield Cadet .22s and my highschool Win M52s was tripping the light fantastic.
I could add disease to the list of terms, after addiction. I do start this 25 years ago with a cooey and now having walther, anschutz, valmet, CZ and many others can resist to add another every time I am going over forums. Every time you get our new trophy is like your birthday again. My centerfire is going second I don't want to spend all my time reloading Driving crazy finding the right load.. prefer shooting different lot of ammo 
. And I have stopped counting $$ and accept the fact it is what it is. this help me keeping balance in life 
this a good group therapy thanks
ghillis
Rod B
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I just bought a BSA Martini International MK3. I didn't really need it but I think it will compliment my MK2 & MK5. Now I am looking for a target scope for it. The rimfire purchasing adventure continues. lol
This is a great thread. No arguments or banter backnforth. What new gun did Glenn get that’ll be on the challenge within a week at most once he gets shooting. Agree with all. It’s whatever you choose to make it. I do however know for fact if an individual can shoot a rimfire accurately they can shoot about any firearm! Grauhannen, enquiring minds have to know what new toy you bought? I’m guessing Bergara
Definitely gets to one, chasing that elusive one-hole rimfire accuracy.
I have several 22 rimfires that are capable, when I am, lol.
Suhl 150 Standard, Remington 40X, Remington M37, Mossberg 144LSB,
Remington 541T sporter [most accurate sporter I have ever shot]
Then there are those that are very pleasing, but maybe not quite as accurate:
CZ 452 American, Remington 581, Mossberg 146b, etc, etc
Then there is the ammo. ELEY Tenex and EPS Match, Lapua Midas, Lapua Center-X,
RWS R100, R50, RWS Rifle match, SK Rifle Match, RWS Special Match,
At least 2 brands of Biathlon specific ammo.......the list goes on.
Find a lot number of ammo your rifle really likes....buy a case or 2.
Money pits, to be sure.....but so much fun!!! Dave.
I have several 22 rimfires that are capable, when I am, lol.
Suhl 150 Standard, Remington 40X, Remington M37, Mossberg 144LSB,
Remington 541T sporter [most accurate sporter I have ever shot]
Then there are those that are very pleasing, but maybe not quite as accurate:
CZ 452 American, Remington 581, Mossberg 146b, etc, etc
Then there is the ammo. ELEY Tenex and EPS Match, Lapua Midas, Lapua Center-X,
RWS R100, R50, RWS Rifle match, SK Rifle Match, RWS Special Match,
At least 2 brands of Biathlon specific ammo.......the list goes on.
Find a lot number of ammo your rifle really likes....buy a case or 2.
Money pits, to be sure.....but so much fun!!! Dave.
Got Juice?
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Peoples Republik of Kanukkistan
Rimfires. both cheap... and expensive.
That is the appeal. You can have cheap and fun.. or range up to ridiculous and fun.
I know my rimfire collection outstrips my CF collection 7:1 Bringing them all up to maximum potential is a tough thing to do. Pretty much an impossible task.
But they are so rewarding for so many different reasons.
That is the appeal. You can have cheap and fun.. or range up to ridiculous and fun.
I know my rimfire collection outstrips my CF collection 7:1 Bringing them all up to maximum potential is a tough thing to do. Pretty much an impossible task.
But they are so rewarding for so many different reasons.
As others have said, it can be as expensive as you 'need' it to be...
For myself, I am mostly a hunter, and hit the range to sight in/practise... So, if my 22's will print groups smaller than the size of a quarter at 50m, I'm good to go. Lucky for me, with ammo selection and a collection that has evolved over time, I have just a couple 22's that will do just that.
In fact, I have one 22, a Zastava MP22 with a 4-12x40AO Bushnell Banner that shoots a ragged little group @50m with CHEAP ammo!
And yes, I'm frugal... That is a BINGO DABBER dot on the paper as 'the target'. Lol
Cheers
Jay
For myself, I am mostly a hunter, and hit the range to sight in/practise... So, if my 22's will print groups smaller than the size of a quarter at 50m, I'm good to go. Lucky for me, with ammo selection and a collection that has evolved over time, I have just a couple 22's that will do just that.
In fact, I have one 22, a Zastava MP22 with a 4-12x40AO Bushnell Banner that shoots a ragged little group @50m with CHEAP ammo!
And yes, I'm frugal... That is a BINGO DABBER dot on the paper as 'the target'. Lol
Cheers
Jay
Attachments
The number of rifles that I have owned and never gave a fair shake to with match grade ammo is alarming.
I am currently comfortable with the stable I have depending on which one my recently PAL'ed daughter takes a shine to . . . a couple are off limits.
Low cost rifles with low cost ammo that put them all into one holes claims evaporate very quickly when invited to a 100 Metre/Yard shoot.
Their recall is often deficient when asked about the range these were shot at and if they were repeatable.
Running CCI MiniMags over the Chrony gave great accuracy when velocity variations were in single digits is impressive but devastating when velocities over and under the teens.
Doing the math, boxes of match grade ammo at $15 per mikes more sense than $30 for 20 rounds of CF factory ammo.
Mind you I am using ammunition that has been tested versus someone blowing away 20 rounds so perhaps the level of enjoyment is a case of mind over matter.
I am currently comfortable with the stable I have depending on which one my recently PAL'ed daughter takes a shine to . . . a couple are off limits.
Low cost rifles with low cost ammo that put them all into one holes claims evaporate very quickly when invited to a 100 Metre/Yard shoot.
Their recall is often deficient when asked about the range these were shot at and if they were repeatable.
Running CCI MiniMags over the Chrony gave great accuracy when velocity variations were in single digits is impressive but devastating when velocities over and under the teens.
Doing the math, boxes of match grade ammo at $15 per mikes more sense than $30 for 20 rounds of CF factory ammo.
Mind you I am using ammunition that has been tested versus someone blowing away 20 rounds so perhaps the level of enjoyment is a case of mind over matter.
I thought I could resist the thread.. but it appears that's not the case.
I've owned several .22s over the years, my buying addiction isn't bad at all. The .22 shooting addiction is much worse, fortunately. Virtually infinite barrel life makes shooting several thousand rounds each year possible for me.
The ammunition game is both the most rewarding and the most frustrating part of .22 accuracy.
I recently stumbled across a batch of .22 ammo that shoots amazingly well from my 452 Varmint, the next brick I got (different lot #) is "meh" in comparison.
I've got a Tikka that isn't nearly as fussy about what it's fed, accuracy is about on par with the 452, maybe a shade better.
I also picked up a tube-fed Marlin 60 last year, just because I'd never owned one. For less than $250, it's a good little rifle. Quite accurate, in spite of what's easily the heaviest trigger I've ever pulled. I need to get an Mcarbo trigger kit..
Fun to shoot with cheap ammo, and 100% reliable. I've used it with good success in our local steel silhouette matches. Kinda funny seeing a Marlin up against Anschutz and Walther. We've got a rather eclectic group, there aren't many brands that aren't represented in a match.
I also shoot open F-class center fire, both are rewarding in their own right. Precision reloading in low volume is a hobby in itself.
I dabble in shotgun too. Skeet, trap, and sporting clays all get their piece of the pie.
I've owned several .22s over the years, my buying addiction isn't bad at all. The .22 shooting addiction is much worse, fortunately. Virtually infinite barrel life makes shooting several thousand rounds each year possible for me.
The ammunition game is both the most rewarding and the most frustrating part of .22 accuracy.
I recently stumbled across a batch of .22 ammo that shoots amazingly well from my 452 Varmint, the next brick I got (different lot #) is "meh" in comparison.
I've got a Tikka that isn't nearly as fussy about what it's fed, accuracy is about on par with the 452, maybe a shade better.
I also picked up a tube-fed Marlin 60 last year, just because I'd never owned one. For less than $250, it's a good little rifle. Quite accurate, in spite of what's easily the heaviest trigger I've ever pulled. I need to get an Mcarbo trigger kit..
Fun to shoot with cheap ammo, and 100% reliable. I've used it with good success in our local steel silhouette matches. Kinda funny seeing a Marlin up against Anschutz and Walther. We've got a rather eclectic group, there aren't many brands that aren't represented in a match.
I also shoot open F-class center fire, both are rewarding in their own right. Precision reloading in low volume is a hobby in itself.
I dabble in shotgun too. Skeet, trap, and sporting clays all get their piece of the pie.
ok so what’s the other gun with the new handle. Kinda like Christmas. We gottah know what one of our mentors has in the stable as purchase number two! How do you find and decide what gun is on the next most wanted list? What are the steps you take to make the gun as accurate as possible if you don’t mind my asking. I know others are also interested in ur wisdom. We as a group of rimfire shooters are fortunate to have skilled,experienced shooters like you and Eagleye, rabid4u5 and maple57. I know there are disagreements at times but can be expected with intelligent people that see things from different perspectives. Thanks to all that are so giving of their knowledge and experience so freely. Thanks to all of you for the guidance and wisdom. Chris
If I was to describe the ultimate rifle, the action must smooth and very stiff... No such thing as too stiff. That's why actions like Vudoo are so well liked, but there are others.
The heavy stiff action is needed to support the next most critical feature...
Next is a heavy barrel, with a muzzle brake. Now you might chuckle at the brake for a 22, thinking only a wimp would want that, but you gotta look deeper. A brake minimizes the muzzle blast that blows on the bullet as it leaves the barrel, and that can improve accuracy. It also reduces recoil, now I agree the recoil on a 22 is slight, but not that slight that it does not disturb your sight picture while the bullet is in the air.
Barrel length is debatable because a shorter barrel oscillates less and is exponentially stiffer than a longer barrel of the same diameter. So depending on the shooting discipline a longer barrel may help or hurt you. For PRS, a longer heavy barrel will help move the balance forward, which is critical to building a stable firing position without having to steer the rifle. But that increases barrel oscillation which is not so good. Need to find balance here.
If you shoot match style iron peep sights, the longer barrel will provide a better sight picture, allowing focus on the front sight more easily. If you use a scope, that wont matter, but the longer barrel does also reduce muzzle blast, so that is a benefit, even if it does not result in higher muzzle velocity.
Trigger is technically not a contributor to accuracy from a bench, but for positional work it is critical that it is light and crisp... For me, 9 ounces max.
Guys will often be reluctant to putting good glass on a 22, because hey, its just a 22 right... Still need good glass... no, scratch that... it needs great glass. You need to be able to read mirage and you just cannot do that well with a Diamondback Tactical.
For PRS style shooting the center of gravity needs to be well forward of the magazine well. This allows the rifle to rest naturally on a barricade so you wont need to use your body to steer the rifle. If you're not a PRS shooter, you should still put some thought into where you want the center of gravity.
With all of the above the rifle will move almost imperceptibly under recoil. That allows the shooter to spot bullets in flight with ease and hopefully call shots in the air. You just cannot do that very well if the rifle is vibrating and oscillating and recoiling all at the same time for that split second while the bullet is in the air.
Stock fit... For PRS style shooting... the cheek rest should be positioned low enough that you can acquire a sight picture without any real cheek pressure. If you have to cheek it hard to get behind the scope, you will become the weak point in your positioning. For most other shooting, the cheek pressure can be what's comfortable to reduce neck strain.
Bullet selection is pretty much a buy it and try it process of elimination. There is very little BC difference between 22LR ammo, but there is enough to result in about 3 MOA vertically at 300 yards. Mainly you are looking for consistent velocity and accuracy. You will probably find some ammo better in the cold and something else better in the summer. Don't ever bother with anything supersonic for a 22... Unless you only shoot to 50 yards. You don't want ammo that must drop through the transonic zone around 1300 FPS.
Eley Force is the fastest bullets I would ever use. They are generally a reasonable starting point, but there are more consistent options available. I also like RWS in general and lots of guys like SK Long Range Match, which also happens to have a fairly high BC for a 22LR.
The heavy stiff action is needed to support the next most critical feature...
Next is a heavy barrel, with a muzzle brake. Now you might chuckle at the brake for a 22, thinking only a wimp would want that, but you gotta look deeper. A brake minimizes the muzzle blast that blows on the bullet as it leaves the barrel, and that can improve accuracy. It also reduces recoil, now I agree the recoil on a 22 is slight, but not that slight that it does not disturb your sight picture while the bullet is in the air.
Barrel length is debatable because a shorter barrel oscillates less and is exponentially stiffer than a longer barrel of the same diameter. So depending on the shooting discipline a longer barrel may help or hurt you. For PRS, a longer heavy barrel will help move the balance forward, which is critical to building a stable firing position without having to steer the rifle. But that increases barrel oscillation which is not so good. Need to find balance here.
If you shoot match style iron peep sights, the longer barrel will provide a better sight picture, allowing focus on the front sight more easily. If you use a scope, that wont matter, but the longer barrel does also reduce muzzle blast, so that is a benefit, even if it does not result in higher muzzle velocity.
Trigger is technically not a contributor to accuracy from a bench, but for positional work it is critical that it is light and crisp... For me, 9 ounces max.
Guys will often be reluctant to putting good glass on a 22, because hey, its just a 22 right... Still need good glass... no, scratch that... it needs great glass. You need to be able to read mirage and you just cannot do that well with a Diamondback Tactical.
For PRS style shooting the center of gravity needs to be well forward of the magazine well. This allows the rifle to rest naturally on a barricade so you wont need to use your body to steer the rifle. If you're not a PRS shooter, you should still put some thought into where you want the center of gravity.
With all of the above the rifle will move almost imperceptibly under recoil. That allows the shooter to spot bullets in flight with ease and hopefully call shots in the air. You just cannot do that very well if the rifle is vibrating and oscillating and recoiling all at the same time for that split second while the bullet is in the air.
Stock fit... For PRS style shooting... the cheek rest should be positioned low enough that you can acquire a sight picture without any real cheek pressure. If you have to cheek it hard to get behind the scope, you will become the weak point in your positioning. For most other shooting, the cheek pressure can be what's comfortable to reduce neck strain.
Bullet selection is pretty much a buy it and try it process of elimination. There is very little BC difference between 22LR ammo, but there is enough to result in about 3 MOA vertically at 300 yards. Mainly you are looking for consistent velocity and accuracy. You will probably find some ammo better in the cold and something else better in the summer. Don't ever bother with anything supersonic for a 22... Unless you only shoot to 50 yards. You don't want ammo that must drop through the transonic zone around 1300 FPS.
Eley Force is the fastest bullets I would ever use. They are generally a reasonable starting point, but there are more consistent options available. I also like RWS in general and lots of guys like SK Long Range Match, which also happens to have a fairly high BC for a 22LR.
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Got Juice?
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Peoples Republik of Kanukkistan
As others have said, it can be as expensive as you 'need' it to be...
For myself, I am mostly a hunter, and hit the range to sight in/practise... So, if my 22's will print groups smaller than the size of a quarter at 50m, I'm good to go. Lucky for me, with ammo selection and a collection that has evolved over time, I have just a couple 22's that will do just that.
In fact, I have one 22, a Zastava MP22 with a 4-12x40AO Bushnell Banner that shoots a ragged little group @50m with CHEAP ammo!
And yes, I'm frugal... That is a BINGO DABBER dot on the paper as 'the target'. Lol
Cheers
Jay
View attachment 358554
View attachment 358555
I'm even cheaper. the first shot is where i align crosshairs, then shoot my actual group from there lol
Can you direct us towards some literature that supports this assertion, or is this just your opinion?
The exceeding majority of supersonic .22LR ammo is made by CCI, Federal, Remington, Winchester, Aguila, etc. The quality standards are extremely low, velocities are very inconsistent with high ES values. Bullets have visible dents, dings, and defects. Seating depth is variable and bullets can be canted. I agree, don't bother with supersonic ammo, because it is garbage that you cannot expect to fly true.
Can you provide an example of a high quality, supersonic ammo compared to it's standard velocity equivalent? (Eley may have some options) I am keen to see the deleterious effects of the much decried "trans-sonic zone".
As the one making questionable claims, the onus is on you to support them. Readers do not appreciate being misled.
You failed to mention a significant concern with regards to the fitting of a muzzle brake. Turning down the muzzle for threads can expand the bore, which is a major accuracy killer in rimfire. See the following video for a demonstration:
[youtube]###_YXzJJOU[/youtube]
If a muzzle brake can offer appreciable accuracy benefits for .22LR, one must wonder why the benchrest crowd has not adopted the practice. If there is anything that helps give them an edge, they're doing it. Similarly, world-record accuracy is being produced in centerfire benchrest, and the muzzle brake is largely absent from those rigs too.
I'm going to display a series of 200 yard, 50-shot targets with HV and SV ammo. They are not mine, they are the work of RFC member jaia.
Is anybody seeing a definitive correlation between the trans-sonic zone and it's effects on the target results?
Every progressive spirit is opposed by a thousand mediocre minds who are committed to guard the status quo.
A lack of common sense, creative though or reluctance to do ones own homework imparts no onus on anyone.
I agree that it is widely accepted that turning down a barrel to accommodate a muzzle break is thought to open the ID, but for every problem (real or imagined) there is a solution.
There is no requirement for a muzzle break thread to be of any particular size. Simply increase the thread diameter to reduce the bore enlargement to negligible effect, for one thing.
There are also split ring style muzzle breaks that serve to clamp the end of the barrel to counter the effect you mentioned.
Further efforts could be put forth by the barrel maker by lapping the barrel after having been profiled for the brake. This would ensure the correct taper regardless of the muzzle brake thread used.
You see the problem is not the mere existence of a muzzle brake that creates a problem... Just when its done badly, and they are often done badly.
As for bench rest use... you are taking my words out of context. I stated several times that I was referring to the context of a PRS shooter. That a muzzle brake is helpful to reduce recoil to help spotting shots in the air. Whether or not bench rest guys chose to use them in mass or not is evidence of nothing.
A lack of common sense, creative though or reluctance to do ones own homework imparts no onus on anyone.
I agree that it is widely accepted that turning down a barrel to accommodate a muzzle break is thought to open the ID, but for every problem (real or imagined) there is a solution.
There is no requirement for a muzzle break thread to be of any particular size. Simply increase the thread diameter to reduce the bore enlargement to negligible effect, for one thing.
There are also split ring style muzzle breaks that serve to clamp the end of the barrel to counter the effect you mentioned.
Further efforts could be put forth by the barrel maker by lapping the barrel after having been profiled for the brake. This would ensure the correct taper regardless of the muzzle brake thread used.
You see the problem is not the mere existence of a muzzle brake that creates a problem... Just when its done badly, and they are often done badly.
As for bench rest use... you are taking my words out of context. I stated several times that I was referring to the context of a PRS shooter. That a muzzle brake is helpful to reduce recoil to help spotting shots in the air. Whether or not bench rest guys chose to use them in mass or not is evidence of nothing.
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