Maccabee defence VS SLR coyote
- Thread starter g3ntleBird
- Start date
From a conversation that I had with the people who supply material for both, it sounds like the BCL's are ALL 6160, vs, the MDI's that are still 7075. Also it would make sense with the prices being what they are, still think the better route is to go with a MDI, if you were choosing between the two.
That's correct, they took the data from MDI on license and have assured me that the SLR uppers fit. I would still like to confirm that in person however
I'm sure someone will soon.
They are not. I think BCL is making the entire receiver set out of 6061. BCL is manufacturing the lower to MDI specs (Dimensional specs, anyways).
The Coyote upper uses a proprietary "dualithic" upper. The handguard bolts onto the upper receiver, not the barrel nut. So you can't use ANY other handguards.
The ATRS MS and MDI SLR are both good options. The SLR had some issues in the early serial numbers, but they've all been ironed out now. Try to take the ATRS fanboy's sh!t talking about the SLR with a grain of salt. Lol.
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Im a CNC machinist, and yes, i know the difference. 7075 is way more rigid over 6061. All good AR upper are 7075 for a reason. Majority of the lower are 6061T6 because it take less stress. Im working on a large parts in 7075 and i cant make it in 6061.
Thanks all!!
Lol Definitely do. I'm also a machinist, I've been a Red Seal Journeyman since 2009.
The tensile and yield strengths of 7075 are almost double that of 6061 (~83k PSI and ~74k, vs ~45k and ~40k, respectively). The hardness is also about 60% higher ~(150 Brinell vs ~95). This all translates into a more durable, longer lasting receiver. There's a reason why it's more expensive.
For comparison, low carbon mild steel's (1018) tensile/yield is ~70k PSI and ~58k. 7075 T651 Aluminum actually has better mechanical properties than junk steel. It's good stuff.
The argument comes from the retards who say 6061 is good enough because the first XM16's were made of 6061.
That's just half of the story. They were made out of 6061 AGAINST the recommendations and specifications of Stoner and Sullivan to use 7075, to cut costs, because "government", just like the barrels were left un-chromed to reduce cost, again going against the engineer's specifications. Just like the specified powder that wasn't used.
All of these cost-cutting measures were done against the engineer's specifications, and caused the loss of countless lives in Vietnam.
There's a very in-depth video about the Whats and Whys of the M16:
That's just half of the story. They were made out of 6061 AGAINST the recommendations and specifications of Stoner and Sullivan to use 7075, to cut costs, because "government", just like the barrels were left un-chromed to reduce cost, again going against the engineer's specifications. Just like the specified powder that wasn't used.
All of these cost-cutting measures were done against the engineer's specifications, and caused the loss of countless lives in Vietnam.
There's a very in-depth video about the Whats and Whys of the M16:
ThatM305Guy
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- North Texas
Yeah because innovation is a terrible thing, right? There is a reason you dont really see monolithic uppers anymore....Their "Dualithic" system basically takes all of the positive aspects, while eliminating the negative ones (Including cost, apparently). It's not an AR, just as the XCR or Tavor are also not ARs. I think it lends itself quite well to the MDI system, given the way the receivers completely lock up tight. I found my first run ATRS receiver to be sloppy AF. Apparently subsequent runs are much better, but that doesn't really help me any as I'm still going to have to try and bed the rear lug, or machine a new sleeve for the rear pin, etc.
In my research I stumbled across the founder and owner (at the time) of NEA explaining that the decision to go with 6061 wasn't simply a cost cutting measure, but was also a result of their destructive testing. They found that basically under extreme circumstances (for example firing a 300blk in a 5.56 barrel) that 6061 would tend to bulge, deform, and absorb the impact. Where as 7075 would send fragments and shrapnel flying.
Also keep in mind that while on paper 6061 has higher "machinability", the reality is that its gummy af, and most machinists you will talk to prefer to deal with 7075 because it's easier to acheive and maintain a nice finish. (Especially when drilling and/or tapping smaller holes.
All arguments aside, the truth is that unless you are a military, or serious competition shooter doing many thousands of rounds a year, you'll never wear out one of these receivers. Hell, there are still 6061 M16's floating around with 10's of thousands of rounds through them.
Companies will do anything they can to be able to justify why their product is better/superior/costs more/whatever, than the next guy.
Clean it. Oil it. Shoot more. Suck less. It'll last you forever.
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No, i love innovation. Do an NR restricted AR, or not. I like this dualithic system. But take all of the positive aspects ? Like the interchangeability and modularity i guess..
Lot of testing between 6061 and 7075 as been done before NEA, belive me. We still are on 7075. I don't take this test as cash. Why NEA didn't publish this revolutionary test online to back this decision ?
Sorry but that is bull####. Im a CNC machinist and i work i lot in majority with aluminum. 6061 is way more easy to machine. I work with a few CNC business and its all the same. Test it, send some submission to CNC business for the same drawing, ask for 6061t6 AND another one for 7075t6. Sometime the 7075t6 will be more expensive, and its not for the material. Because yes, 7075t6 is more expensive than 6061t6. The real problem is cheap aluminum. 6061 or 7075, its gonna be gummy af. If 7075 is easier to machine, AR lower will be made of 7075. The real challenge on an AR is the lower, not the upper.
Exaclty.
This is essentially an SLR (With some proprietary parts) for $1500. Cheaper materials were used to cut costs obviously, but come on. You can't come anywhere close to building an SLR or MS for what this will cost. Why is another non-restricted AR-like gun on the Canadian market a bad thing??
Milofficer
CGN Regular
- Location
- Vancouver, BC
Can someone clarify - The Coyote rifle comes with its own design of handguard, but is it able to take standard AR handguards too?
