Best HD option in .223?

popcan

popcan

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Re thinking my needs... what’s everyone’s choice on a home defense firearm?

I’ve always had an M1 carbine around, but perhaps it’s time to upgrade to something more modern?

I’d prefer something light, non restricted, and in .223.
(I’m not really looking at PCC’s at the moment - that’s the hole the M1 carbine fills for me).

I’d be interested to hear your opinions!
 
A traditional .223 for home in NR will have the 18.6” barrel. It will be long and unwieldy if things go bump in the night. It will also be very very loud unless you store ear pros with your rifle.

But if it’s what you want, the only ones I can think off the top, that are short and NR are the bullpups, like the T97, X95, TAR-21 and Bushmaster M-17.

For your needs, I suggest a 12ga pump.
 
Still alive said:
A traditional .223 for home in NR will have the 18.6” barrel. It will be long and unwieldy if things go bump in the night. It will also be very very loud unless you store ear pros with your rifle.

But if it’s what you want, the only ones I can think off the top, that are short and NR are the bullpups, like the T97, X95, TAR-21 and Bushmaster M-17.

For your needs, I suggest a 12ga pump.
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Absolutely not a T97 unless you just want to brandish the gun and not actually use it. It's unreliable as hell. Someone will come along and say "Mine never had any problems through X amount of rounds". I've been through at least 8 of these over the years and every single one of them were so Jam-o-matic that it doesn't even fit the bill as a range toy.

X95 and Tavor on the other hand are solid choices though.

More in depth about the T97:
If you ever notice the T97 bolt head, it's wayyy wider than an AR15, Tavor, etc. This means that the angle of which the round gets stripped out of the magazine needs to be very steep in order to reach the chamber "height". One way to minimize the steepness is longer travel incorporated in the design. However, a standard "ar" magazine feed lips only goes so far which means theres a distance where the round isn't being controlled. Thus, in many instances the round pops up and ramps into the side causing the uncrimped bullets to set back into the case. When this happens you have powder spills everywhere in the chamber area. It only goes downhill from here. Even if you managed to eject the deformed round, your whole action will be jammed from all the spilled powder. I wouldn't even consider it as a range gun. But thats IMHO
 
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If you are set on using a 223...

IMG_0215-e1571619759385.jpeg


But the good ol' 12 gauge will serve you well...

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It all depends if you in suburb, rural area, condo or urban houses.

I will say rifle should only be considered if you have a large property and your "legal defensive scenario" includes outdoor and firing into the outdoor where there are absolutely no other houses in a mile or two, or there is a good back drop.

Otherwise, handgun makes the most sense for most normal residential indoor, unless you are in a large "mansion". Your typical carbine is too long for the regular residential indoor, especially with all the tight space in a typical normal house. An extra hand for light/phone/manipulation of light switches-doors-alarm system should be considered

The only good thing about shotgun is that it is "common" and "non offensive" in the eyes of judges and juries, but it is terrible because pellets fly everywhere and you need to have 100% accountability of where the projectiles go. It is also long, same issue as a carbine.
 
My Kel-Tec sub 2000 in 40 is my theoretical HD gun. Single point sling, flashlight, possibly a red dot. Not as fast as a handgun, but still pretty light and maneuverable, and folded on the single point it carry’s very well.
 
greentips said:
It all depends if you in suburb, rural area, condo or urban houses.

I will say rifle should only be considered if you have a large property and your "legal defensive scenario" includes outdoor and firing into the outdoor where there are absolutely no other houses in a mile or two, or there is a good back drop.

Otherwise, handgun makes the most sense for most normal residential indoor, unless you are in a large "mansion". Your typical carbine is too long for the regular residential indoor, especially with all the tight space in a typical normal house. An extra hand for light/phone/manipulation of light switches-doors-alarm system should be considered

The only good thing about shotgun is that it is "common" and "non offensive" in the eyes of judges and juries, but it is terrible because pellets fly everywhere and you need to have 100% accountability of where the projectiles go. It is also long, same issue as a carbine.
Click to expand...

^^^ a lot of valid points there.

What is your opinion on an X-95 in 9mm being a viable alternative? I think I'd rather use a 9mm instead of 223 and the bulpup provides better maneuverability over a regular carbine.

Of course this is if a handgun is not an option for someone.
 
popcan said:
Re thinking my needs... what’s everyone’s choice on a home defense firearm?

I’ve always had an M1 carbine around, but perhaps it’s time to upgrade to something more modern?

I’d prefer something light, non restricted, and in .223.
(I’m not really looking at PCC’s at the moment - that’s the hole the M1 carbine fills for me).

I’d be interested to hear your opinions!
Click to expand...

For home defense I would rather have a M1 carbine in .30cal then something in .223. In a city I would be worried about over penetration with .223 whereas .30cal has adequate stopping power with less worry about tagging a neighbour or their house.

However I would rather use a pistol chambered in 9mm with hollow points or a short barreled 12 gauge shotgun with buckshot before a M1 carbine for home defense.
 
PinaKaleada said:
Absolutely not a T97 unless you just want to brandish the gun and not actually use it. It's unreliable as hell. Someone will come along and say "Mine never had any problems through X amount of rounds". I've been through at least 8 of these over the years and every single one of them were so Jam-o-matic that it doesn't even fit the bill as a range toy.

X95 and Tavor on the other hand are solid choices though.

More in depth about the T97:
If you ever notice the T97 bolt head, it's wayyy wider than an AR15, Tavor, etc. This means that the angle of which the round gets stripped out of the magazine needs to be very steep in order to reach the chamber "height". One way to minimize the steepness is longer travel incorporated in the design. However, a standard "ar" magazine feed lips only goes so far which means theres a distance where the round isn't being controlled. Thus, in many instances the round pops up and ramps into the side causing the uncrimped bullets to set back into the case. When this happens you have powder spills everywhere in the chamber area. It only goes downhill from here. Even if you managed to eject the deformed round, your whole action will be jammed from all the spilled powder. I wouldn't even consider it as a range gun. But thats IMHO
Click to expand...

Second the X95 for reliability. Mine has been awesome. When it gets REALLY dirty it'll start to malfunction but we are talking a lot of rounds. After a clean its good for a long time again. That gun would be in my load out if I was headed to war for sure.

As others have said a handgun probably makes the most sense indoors but a shotgun would be the easiest to deal with after the fact (most people think of grandpas old side by side double barrel though, not my Benelli M4).
 
greentips said:
It all depends if you in suburb, rural area, condo or urban houses.

I will say rifle should only be considered if you have a large property and your "legal defensive scenario" includes outdoor and firing into the outdoor where there are absolutely no other houses in a mile or two, or there is a good back drop.

Otherwise, handgun makes the most sense for most normal residential indoor, unless you are in a large "mansion". Your typical carbine is too long for the regular residential indoor, especially with all the tight space in a typical normal house. An extra hand for light/phone/manipulation of light switches-doors-alarm system should be considered

The only good thing about shotgun is that it is "common" and "non offensive" in the eyes of judges and juries, but it is terrible because pellets fly everywhere and you need to have 100% accountability of where the projectiles go. It is also long, same issue as a carbine.
Click to expand...

^^^^^^^This

Remember a shotgun is an experts weapon, if you haven't had training you shouldn't be shooting one around people. Fighting with a shotgun is not easy

Shawn
 
jiffx2781 said:
^^^ a lot of valid points there.

What is your opinion on an X-95 in 9mm being a viable alternative? I think I'd rather use a 9mm instead of 223 and the bulpup provides better maneuverability over a regular carbine.

Of course this is if a handgun is not an option for someone.
Click to expand...

If you are purposefully getting a gun for home defense a hand gun is the option. But, to use until you can get one/ get an RPAL, run what you brung. And practice with it

Shawn
 
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To be honest, for most HD applications, just get a 9mm Glock 17/19 and get good at hitting a letter sized paper at 10 yards with speed. Thats all you'll ever need at those distances.

And get tritium and light on that pistol as well.
 
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