This and get box of JHPs for it, don't run FMJ.
Best HD option in .223?
- Thread starter popcan
- Start date
This and get box of JHPs for it, don't run FMJ.
DarkStalker
Regular
- Location
- Kebekistan
Thanks yup !
LOL at the mag
LOL at the mag
I personally am a big fan of the 223 for HD, other than noise. In a more civilized country, a suppressor would alleviate most of that issue.
On the subject of over penetration, anything that misses, will "over penetrate" but unless i lived in an apartment building, and even then... with the right ammo, 223 will often penetrate less than pistol rounds.
Regardless, you are 100% accountable for every round you send down range, so apply marksmanship accordingly.
On the subject of over penetration, anything that misses, will "over penetrate" but unless i lived in an apartment building, and even then... with the right ammo, 223 will often penetrate less than pistol rounds.
Regardless, you are 100% accountable for every round you send down range, so apply marksmanship accordingly.
I’m disappointed you’re all having a conversation on ammunition and caliber types and what’s best for “home defense” but not one person has brought up Dr. Roberts extensive research and write up on the matter that was posted on AR15.com
While I’m sure everyone’s opinions cast some relevance, I’d highly recommend you familiarize yourselves with actual scientific knowledge and information before lighting off a few rounds in defense of your home. Theoretically of course, considering the nation in which we reside.
See the very in-depth piece here:
http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/self_defense_ammo_FAQ/
One point I did want to add, in regards to noise that someone made here. Unless your intention is to engage would be invaders and dispose of the “theoretical” bodies that are now strewn across your property, noise is your friend. I believe it was John Lovell (aka Warrior Poet) that said he wants his primary home defense gun to be a “fire breathing dragon” because noise attracts attention and attention attracts police. Let’s be real for a moment, unless we’re fantasizing about end of times, the police are exactly the people you want to be there should you ever have to resort to deadly force to defend your home....theoretically of course.
While I’m sure everyone’s opinions cast some relevance, I’d highly recommend you familiarize yourselves with actual scientific knowledge and information before lighting off a few rounds in defense of your home. Theoretically of course, considering the nation in which we reside.
See the very in-depth piece here:
http://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/self_defense_ammo_FAQ/
One point I did want to add, in regards to noise that someone made here. Unless your intention is to engage would be invaders and dispose of the “theoretical” bodies that are now strewn across your property, noise is your friend. I believe it was John Lovell (aka Warrior Poet) that said he wants his primary home defense gun to be a “fire breathing dragon” because noise attracts attention and attention attracts police. Let’s be real for a moment, unless we’re fantasizing about end of times, the police are exactly the people you want to be there should you ever have to resort to deadly force to defend your home....theoretically of course.
223 is actually a good choice.
If anything, what it hits will be sufficient to slow it down or even to stop it.
It fragments in things as soft as drywall.
Pistol rounds have higher penetration and go through such things as walls rather easily.
That is why police teams have dropped things like MP5s for their 5.56 carbines.
The MP% is a very select specialty use thing now days.
The difficult part is that any firearm used in defense of life is frowned on by our superiors in the courts.
The more so the more scary it appears or is restricted by category.
Noise is your last thing to worry about if you have to use it.
If anything, what it hits will be sufficient to slow it down or even to stop it.
It fragments in things as soft as drywall.
Pistol rounds have higher penetration and go through such things as walls rather easily.
That is why police teams have dropped things like MP5s for their 5.56 carbines.
The MP% is a very select specialty use thing now days.
The difficult part is that any firearm used in defense of life is frowned on by our superiors in the courts.
The more so the more scary it appears or is restricted by category.
Noise is your last thing to worry about if you have to use it.
SustainingGopher
CGN Regular
- Location
- An airport
going to advocate for a 12 gauge with buckshot personally
would somewhat agree with the poster about the t97. Loved taking it to the range but wouldnt 100% trust my life to it.
conclusion: quality AR with a short barrel or an x95
would somewhat agree with the poster about the t97. Loved taking it to the range but wouldnt 100% trust my life to it.
conclusion: quality AR with a short barrel or an x95
PinaKaleada
CGN Regular
- Location
- South of most
Further to my 9mm pistol suggestion earlier, I would even choose something like an M9a1/a3 with a light. These things are heavy enough that it recoils very soft but are super reliable. With decocker-only upgrade I would trust my life in it, strictly for HD. It’s not a good choice for carry gun even if CCW is legal in Canada.
Would trust my life in this for HD, but only with decocker-only mod:
Tip: Use light beam to aim. In real life situation no one aims with the sights.
Would trust my life in this for HD, but only with decocker-only mod:
Tip: Use light beam to aim. In real life situation no one aims with the sights.
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People are overly fixated on terminal ballistics of a specific calibre or platform.
Techniques and then tactics are much more important.
There are big variances in the interior dimension, layout, exterior spaces amongst urban houses, commercial space and rural properties. Your cookie cutter suburb houses are very different from the victorian houses, and they are also very different from the cottages and farm houses with plenty of land on the properties.
The typical new town houses are also 3 to 4 storeys tall and narrow with tall steep stairs, versus in old suburbs there are lots of bungalows. Residential doors are narrower, vs commercial buildings are wider. Some condos and apartment buildings have internal hallways over 50m in length.
Say using a 16" carbine to HD one of those new tall narrow suburb town houses, it is overloading in terminal ballistics but taking a big dump in technique efficiency. Difficult to execute techniques leads to lousy execution and then bad tactics because the user is fighting the tool instead of concentrating on the task.
To say one platform is better than the other without detailed information on the environment and potential threat is not very useful.
Techniques and then tactics are much more important.
There are big variances in the interior dimension, layout, exterior spaces amongst urban houses, commercial space and rural properties. Your cookie cutter suburb houses are very different from the victorian houses, and they are also very different from the cottages and farm houses with plenty of land on the properties.
The typical new town houses are also 3 to 4 storeys tall and narrow with tall steep stairs, versus in old suburbs there are lots of bungalows. Residential doors are narrower, vs commercial buildings are wider. Some condos and apartment buildings have internal hallways over 50m in length.
Say using a 16" carbine to HD one of those new tall narrow suburb town houses, it is overloading in terminal ballistics but taking a big dump in technique efficiency. Difficult to execute techniques leads to lousy execution and then bad tactics because the user is fighting the tool instead of concentrating on the task.
To say one platform is better than the other without detailed information on the environment and potential threat is not very useful.
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Yes x10
Fuzzy Wool Hat
Regular
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Second tip: make sure your light beam is aligned with those useless sights so you don’t accidentally murder your children sleeping in the room beside the intruder
Depends if you are ok with helplessly dying or if you have the desire to live even though you will face consequences.
Do you believe it's better to be judged by twelve or would you rather be carried by six?
These are questions that NOBODY has the right to answer but you.
redshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Central Ontario
No...
Fuzzy Wool Hat
Regular
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Citing it as a reason to own guns on your license application is not permitted, but if your life is being threatened all bets are off. You can argue it in court if you survive.
Noise is an interesting factor. Lets assume you discharged 2rds of 12g blanks...just for noise the noise factor. Intruder(s) exit and disappear. Plausible.
When police arrive, would you be charged for discharging a firearm even though the discharge was blanks?....nothing lethal there...just noise.
Sorry, I just have the expectation that those who are sharing their opinions regarding this tool and that ammunition choice and having open discussions about HD/SD have already nailed down their techniques and tactics but you’re correct 100%.
That being said, assuming your technique and tactics are sound, and keeping on point with the OP’s discussion on certain tools and certain ammunition types, it can’t hurt the have scientific data to back up ones choice of ammunition.
This is the problem with CGN
The same three cases that happened over the last 40 years get parroted over and over and over. The reality is guns are used all the time in Canada in defense, and yet these few cases are all the "you will go to jail, you will be charged, you will have your life ruined" people can provide. Yes they happened, yes it may happen again, no it is not the status qou
There are far more cases where no was even charged or went to the police station
Learn the law, follow the law and chances are nothing will happen to you
Shawn
