Why a pcp over a low velocity .22 rimfire ?

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Rokon1976

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In my recent interest in high end high power pcp air guns I have discovered that all the YouTube videos about them are showing moderated, or suppressed.. whatever the correct term is. Well, to my disappointment .. I didn’t didn’t realize these moderated air rifles were prohibited in Canada, and that the versions we could get here would be minus the barrel shrouds and moderators and be much much louder.
Seeing the accuracy and precision build quality of these guns, and the fact that they make nothing more then light pop sound when fired had me instantly hooked and wanting one . The FX brand had my attention and I was looking at the crown, as well as the dreamline .. pondering .22 or .25
My main purpose for the gun would be back yard plinking to shoot more and shoot often .. as well as back yard pesting, and also some pest control at a friends farm . When I say farm, I mean a small acreage .. technically a farm, but not enough land that you can legally shoot a powder burner, as well as the nearest neighbour being close enough that sound is an issue .
So now that I have taken an interest in these pcp’s and done a lot of reading about them... it has been said that these pcp’s aren’t quiet by any means when not moderated, in fact in most cases are as loud or louder then a .22 short fired from a longer barrelled rimfire rifle .
So considering that, and the cost of these air guns when you add in an electric pump, or a large fill bottle ...
What is the draw to a high end pcp in Canada ? A good quality .22 can be every bit as accurate as one of these high end pcp’s, and not much, if any louder .. but you can be shooting for thousands less .
I’m not hating on the pcp’s . I still think they are super cool, and would love one if money grew on trees . But I found myself wondering why I would buy one if I can’t shoot in my back yard .. can’t use it at my friends farm for pigeons without pissing off his neighbours .. and the gun and pump etc was going to set me back at least 2 grand .
Am I missing something here ? I just can’t see a big market for these high dollar pcp’s with our stupid laws making them so loud .
I say all this having never fired a pcp to hear for myself . But from everything Ive read, it seems they are quite loud . Some guys saying they use hearing protection when firing them . If I need hearing protection, then that’s far too loud for what I’m looking for .
 
Rokon1976 said:
Seeing the accuracy and precision build quality of these guns, and the fact that they make nothing more then light pop sound when fired had me instantly hooked and wanting one . The FX brand had my attention and I was looking at the crown, as well as the dreamline .. pondering .22 or .25
My main purpose for the gun would be back yard plinking to shoot more and shoot often .. as well as back yard pesting, and also some pest control at a friends farm . When I say farm, I mean a small acreage .. technically a farm, but not enough land that you can legally shoot a powder burner, as well as the nearest neighbour being close enough that sound is an issue .
So now that I have taken an interest in these pcp’s and done a lot of reading about them... it has been said that these pcp’s aren’t quiet by any means when not moderated, in fact in most cases are as loud or louder then a .22 short fired from a longer barrelled rimfire rifle .

What is the draw to a high end pcp in Canada ? A good quality .22 can be every bit as accurate as one of these high end pcp’s, and not much, if any louder .. but you can be shooting for thousands less .
I’m not hating on the pcp’s . I still think they are super cool, and would love one if money grew on trees . But I found myself wondering why I would buy one if I can’t shoot in my back
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If you're comparing a quietly-shooting .22 rimfire with a good quality PCP rifle in terms of loudness and wondering what the appeal is for the PCP, then it's not the fairest comparison. A good quality PCP is often more expensive than the average .22 rimfire, especially when the cost of filling with a pump, high pressure tank and/or a compressor is added. If the loudness is the most important criteria, then the PCP is a bad choice because of its cost.

If accuracy is a factor, then the comparison might favor the PCP. Any old .22 rimfire with .22 quiet-type ammo such as CCI Quiet-22 or even .22 short may very well be much less accurate than a good quality PCP with well-chosen pellets at distances under about 50 yards.

In any case, it sounds like the plan was backyard shooting and shooting on a friend's farm where it's not legal to shoot a powder burner. It should be kept in mind that if it's not legal to shoot a powder burning firearm, it's also not legal to shoot an air rifle. If backyard shooting with a .22 rimfire is not legal, neither is backyard shooting with an air rifle. An air rifle that requires a PAL (MV more than 500 fps) is viewed under the law as a firearm, just like a .22LR or a centerfire.
 
Some pcp guns you can adjust the velocity, so you can shoot the same gun in your basement at low velocity, or take it out in the field or range and shoot at higher velocities. They would produce very little toxins so you can shoot them indoors without enhanced ventilation to remove smoke, etc. Mostly, they are just something different and if you think so, cool. Not cheap, not as convenient, not cheap to shoot if you use quality pellets. Still, I'm not about to sell mine. I fill mine with a scuba tank, and sometimes at the range shoot it tethered to the tank so pressure and velocity remain really constant. With Daisy or Crossman pellets, it shoots really craptacular, but with JSB pellets, it shoots on par with a good 22 using good ammo.
 
I think that a pcp would be safer to shoot in a backyard than a 22 due to the reduced risk of a ricochet, and the pellet isn't going to travel as far as an errant 22 bullet. Suppressors would sure be nice to use with either though. I can legally and safely shoot in my yard, but I don't very often due to not wanting to annoy the neighbours too much.
Kristian
 
From my limited experience with it so far, my Daystate Red Wolf .177cal is the quietest air rifle I have ever shot. The pellet hitting the target is the loudest thing about shooting it. It's not using a lot of air and there is no mechanical noise as it uses a solenoid instead of a hammer and valve (from what I understand).

edit to add...I would have looked at one of these but they weren't available when I bought mine. If you go to the 8:40 mark on the video it will give you an idea of how quiet the .177cal is.

 
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turbo_bird said:
I think that a pcp would be safer to shoot in a backyard than a 22 due to the reduced risk of a ricochet, and the pellet isn't going to travel as far as an errant 22 bullet. Suppressors would sure be nice to use with either though. I can legally and safely shoot in my yard, but I don't very often due to not wanting to annoy the neighbours too much.
Kristian
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Well depends on the gun and caliber.

My .25 Condor is like a .22 long unless I use the CO2 adaptor to drop the power. I have swapped the barrels from .177, .20, .22, before standardizing on .25 for long range gopher venting. Eun Jins are the hardest pellets, and burn thru everything when fired around 960 fps (subsonic).

What a .25 does......





Chose an Airforce gun after I heard about all these complicated PCPs that do not have lifetime warranties, only a year warranty on a $1500 - $2500 PCP is nuts!
 
randyhub said:
Well depends on the gun and caliber.

My .25 Condor is like a .22 long unless I use the CO2 adaptor to drop the power. I have swapped the barrels from .177, .20, .22, before standardizing on .25 for long range gopher venting. Eun Jins are the hardest pellets, and burn thru everything when fired around 960 fps (subsonic).

What a .25 does......





Chose an Airforce gun after I heard about all these complicated PCPs that do not have lifetime warranties, only a year warranty on a $1500 - $2500 PCP is nuts!
Click to expand...

That's fairly impressive. How heavy are the pellets to retain that kind of energy? We had PAL rated spring piston air rifles when I was young, but they were only .177 ones, and I think the pellets we used were something like 8 grains. I had a .22 cal pump gun, but they were still only around 17 grain pellets.
Kristian
 
.25 JSB Exacts are around 25 grains have the best BC for longer ranges.

I have used up to 42 grain Eun Jins they really did a number on gophers, but they are long so cannot be used in repeaters and you need huge power to push them at 960 fps.

Being a US company, Airforce offers a lifetime warranty. After a few years I had a valve leak, sent the bottle back not the entire gun, they repaired it fast and sent it back. Have 4 friends now with condors like mine. :)

But, have been using .17HMRs on gophers now.
 
For pest control around my house I just use a cheap $200 folding break action single shot garden gun. I have a variety of ammo in marked pill bottles for different pests, locations and circumstances. I have .22 HV to target to subsonics to shorts to calibras, which are just shorts with only a primer charge. I want to try the shot shells to see if they would be a good addition?

Because of the versatility, cost and small convenient package there js really no reason for me to buy a pcp even though I had wanted one for the longest time. My garden gun for the last 2.5 years is a new Chiappa Badger Deluxe and over that period it had made 12 kills, 9 of which were raccoons and the latest just last week being a 1.3 lbs grey squirrel. I posted a pic in a different thread already!lol

I have all sorts of guns but like a pcp they all seem too big and cumbersome for pest control. I even have smaller, higher capacity guns like my .22 Henry's Mare's Leg but I need something long enough for 3 solid points of contact so that my one shot counts each and every time.
 
I think shooting airgun in the backyard (or basement) is more socially acdeptable than shooting a 22lr.
- as example, the wife couldn't care that I shoot air guns in the house (regardless of power level), trying the same with 22lr (even with CB short) probably wouldn't
 
Garaldtao said:
For pest control around my house I just use a cheap $200 folding break action single shot garden gun. I have a variety of ammo in marked pill bottles for different pests, locations and circumstances. I have .22 HV to target to subsonics to shorts to calibras, which are just shorts with only a primer charge. I want to try the shot shells to see if they would be a good addition?

Because of the versatility, cost and small convenient package there js really no reason for me to buy a pcp even though I had wanted one for the longest time. My garden gun for the last 2.5 years is a new Chiappa Badger Deluxe and over that period it had made 12 kills, 9 of which were raccoons and the latest just last week being a 1.3 lbs grey squirrel. I posted a pic in a different thread already!lol

I have all sorts of guns but like a pcp they all seem too big and cumbersome for pest control. I even have smaller, higher capacity guns like my .22 Henry's Mare's Leg but I need something long enough for 3 solid points of contact so that my one shot counts each and every time.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you have the same dilemma as me . I already have a nice German made magnum springer in .22 that kills everything in the backyard I point it at .
I also have a cheaper break barrel .177 that’s under 500fps . It belongs to my son .. but when a closer shot can be made, and I want it a little quieter, I reach for that .. and it does a fine job on squirrels as well . Then I have an assortment of .22 rimfires .. all of which are great option for small game.. but I won’t use those in the back yard obviously.
So I’d really like a nice pcp .. but I just can’t justify the cost for something that I can’t really use much around the house .. and where I can use it, I could just as easily use a .22 or .17hmr .
I guess I will sit on the fence a while longer . Lol .
 
Randy hub


You really summed things up with your post, less for me to type! Years ago I lived in the country and a friend brought his airforce condor in .25 cal out to shoot. He had a high magnification scope and calibrated adjustment wheel on the side. He was taking similar shots at 100 plus yards, I was amazed at how precise the click wheel was on his scope. He is also an exceptional FT shooter so that helps. He prefered the airgun to the rimfire for the consistency vs the variation found in a lot of rimfire ammo. He also had a regulated bottle so could tune it down, switch calibers quickly and get a tonne of shots for plinking. Also in terms of noise It really wasnt all that bad. There is definitely a lot more to deal with in terms of gear than a rimfire but if you have the room they are really neat. Most of my shooting was in the barns so i just used a 700fps springer in .22 cal which did the job. As for long range I used a savage mark ii which works great but just not as accurate but that could be due to my ammo and experience.
 
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IanC said:
Randy hub


You really summed things up with your post, less for me to type! Years ago I lived in the country and a friend brought his airforce condor in .25 cal out to shoot. He had a high magnification scope and calibrated adjustment wheel on the side. He was taking similar shots at 100 plus yards, I was amazed at how precise the click wheel was on his scope. He is also an exceptional FT shooter so that helps. He prefered the airgun to the rimfire for the consistency vs the variation found in a lot of rimfire ammo. He also had a regulated bottle so could tune it down, switch calibers quickly and get a tonne of shots for plinking. Also in terms of noise It really wasnt all that bad. There is definitely a lot more to deal with in terms of gear than a rimfire but if you have the room they are really neat. Most of my shooting was in the barns so i just used a 700fps springer in .22 cal which did the job. As for long range I used a savage mark ii which works great but just not as accurate but that could be due to my ammo and experience.
Click to expand...

Yes, PCPs are more accurate I found overall at distances under 100 yards mostly between 25 and 50 yards though.

My Savage .17HMR is pretty loud but shot placement is much less critical on vermin, and as well has retired my .223 bolt for the most part.

I love PCP's but they are complex, do eventually leak, warranty/repairs can be a very long cycle, plus the air tank inspections, fills, and packing around makes field work taxing, hence my Savage .17 choice.


But back to the post, i really think a decent springer with Predators pellet will suffice, and get good with irons, as the more powerful a springer the more the back and forth recoil will mess with a scope's zero. :(
 
randyhub said:
.25 JSB Exacts are around 25 grains have the best BC for longer ranges.

I have used up to 42 grain Eun Jins they really did a number on gophers, but they are long so cannot be used in repeaters and you need huge power to push them at 960 fps.

Being a US company, Airforce offers a lifetime warranty. After a few years I had a valve leak, sent the bottle back not the entire gun, they repaired it fast and sent it back. Have 4 friends now with condors like mine. :)

But, have been using .17HMRs on gophers now.
Click to expand...

Because of Randy, I have 2 Condors now. One has a 9mm 14" barrel and the other one is a .25 with a 24" barrel...also a AR15 and a Savage bolt in .223...because of Randy.
 
Sorry R Man, guns are like potato chips, by the way, once you got that 9mm Condor my .25 Condor felt like a Red Ryder. :)

I like black guns, makes the Lefties squirm! :) :) :)
 
In my limited experience, most pcps are as loud as those low powered .22 rounds. Since a pcp rifle with accessories will cost as much or more than a pretty nice .22 it would have to come down to really wanting one.
 
I got into it for legality reasons. Can't legally shoot a firearm on my property, but can legally shoot airguns. My last place had steel targets out to 272 yards, awesome fun with airguns. They also work perfectly for taking out small pests.

Certainly there's a lot of downsides to airguns, but they are a lot of fun, impressive performance and you can shoot them where you can't shoot firearms. An airgun is not a substitute for a rimfire, but it's a great addition.

Places for both in anyone's armory.
 
Air guns have a different appeal in the US than in Canada
iirc in the US a 'firearm' propels a projectile by explosion or 'fire' , a sane definition
Up here, a firearm can be almost anything that throws an object, and they get listed together in rules and regs
In some cases a Daisy Red Ryder gets lumped in with hi-power hi-capacity big danger wmd black rifles
 
boxhitch said:
In some cases a Daisy Red Ryder gets lumped in with hi-power hi-capacity big danger wmd black rifles
Click to expand...

This is true. But it's important to keep things in perspective. In Canada a BB gun gets lumped in with any other firearm -- when it's used in the commission of an offence. For example, if someone were to rob a bank with a Daisy Red Ryder he would be facing armed robbery charges just as if he had used a derringer or a Cooey single shot .22 rimfire, or a 12 gauge shotgun. Same thing if it was used where firearms can't be used, such as in the back yard of a suburban house. The bottom line is that if such an airgun is used in the commission of a crime, it's treated as any other firearm.

On the other hand, as a sub-500fps airgun not requiring a PAL, anyone over 18 years of age can buy and possess it. They are exempt from the safe storage and transportation requirements that apply to non-restricted or restricted firearms. Of course common sense safety should be practiced as always.
 
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