.224 Semi with some legs.

redshooter

redshooter

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I've taken a break from pretending my AR is a Precision Rifle, it was damn close, but not quite what I want. I'm currently planing another upper, built on a S&W slick side Sporter Upper w:h:

I'm going to stick with 224" just to keep the cost down. I'd prefer a 24" barrel, availability is going to be the only reason I'll go smaller. I'd also like it Nitrided, to give it a bit more life. Most important I want sub MOA, so I may have to pass on the surface treatment.

So it's down to the Cartridge, the 224 Valkyrie is a slam dunk on the surface, but I was thinking about a 22 PPC for a long time to give 80gr projectiles a little extra pop. Now we have an improved version based on the Grendel according to some of the reading I've done in past threads.

I was going to bump an old thread, but perhaps it's time to revisit this topic from the perspective of which cartridge is going to give the best performance with the least hassle.
 
I went BCL and the 22 Creedmoor. Very accurate, simple to do... excellent ballistics at reduced operation pressures.

224 Valkyrie if using the AR15 but I think the elevated pressures needed to 'perform' are leading to a range of issues. AR's do not respond well to being hotrodded.

I would not bother to nitride if peak accuracy is the goal.... and if you lower the operation pressures, bores last a good long time.

PM or email if you want to discuss further.

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
I went BCL and the 22 Creedmoor. Very accurate, simple to do... excellent ballistics at reduced operation pressures.

224 Valkyrie if using the AR15 but I think the elevated pressures needed to 'perform' are leading to a range of issues. AR's do not respond well to being hotrodded.

I would not bother to nitride if peak accuracy is the goal.... and if you lower the operation pressures, bores last a good long time.

PM or email if you want to discuss further.

Jerry
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I was actually thinking of following your path exactly, but for the cost of a Receiver set, I can order a REAL Match Barrel for about the same cost. I'm off and running with a match barrel, eventually I'd get an MS/SLR set to make it NR (let's not speculate, we already know the end game), but until then I can at least enjoy it while I weasel a set.

What's McGowen's turn around time these days? Hahaha, before the madness...
 
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redshooter said:
I was actually thinking of following your path exactly, but for the cost of a Receiver set, I can order a REAL Match Barrel for about the same cost. I'm off and running with a match barrel, eventually I'd get an MS/SLR set to make it NR (let's not speculate, we already know the end game), but until then I can at least enjoy it while I weasel a set.

What's McGowen's turn around time these days? Hahaha, before the madness...
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A variety of options for match barrels.. send an email and we can discuss.

Just be prepared to NOT get the velocity the 224V was sold having. From the feedback I have seen, the 224V is a mag friendly 223 Rem for heavy bullets.... not a bad thing but not what alot of shooters invested to get.

that is why I went BCL and the 22 CM.... I have tested at 190yds to 1/2 MOA consistently and the combo has shot very well way out there in my bolt rifles. When the snow melts, I will push it out towards 1000yds and see how it behaves vs my bolt rifles.

Jerry
 
If you want to stay in a small frame AR receiver, I'd go for one of the .22 Grendel variants (if you don't mind wildcatting) or 224 Valkyrie if you want plug and play both for the increased speed and ability to fit longer bullets (think 75 and 88 ELDMs) in an AR mag. I'm actually planning a similar build but with a 19" barrel so as to replicate the performance of a 26" barrelled bolt .223 in a handier length gas gun.
 
rugbydave said:
If you want to stay in a small frame AR receiver, I'd go for one of the .22 Grendel variants (if you don't mind wildcatting) or 224 Valkyrie if you want plug and play both for the increased speed and ability to fit longer bullets (think 75 and 88 ELDMs) in an AR mag. I'm actually planning a similar build but with a 19" barrel so as to replicate the performance of a 26" barrelled bolt .223 in a handier length gas gun.
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Pretty much what I'm up to, but I don't want to give up any FPS, so 24", or even 26". I don't mind Wildcatting as long as the Parent Case isn't priced like it's made of Gold.

Can anyone recommend a ridged free float handguard that is inexpensive. All it needs is a rail to mount a Bi-pod.
 
Is anyone shooting one of the mentioned cartridges? I'm more curious about performance in a 24" barrel. I already have no intention of spending money on 90gr projectiles. I played with them for a bit when I had my Left Port, total waste of money, 80's were great though. I might even consider a 6mm PPC or some variant, I'm already shooting 105's, it looks like 2500-2600 FPS is easy, not too bad for a projectile with a G1 around .500.
 
Bolt gun, not semi... I can tell you how to get 2900 FPS out of a 223 Rem with 88 grain Hornady ELD Match if that interests you... Guys always cringe when they read that, but it's been done in F Class for 20 years with 90 grain SMKs. You can probably find the article is here somewhere: http://www.dcra.ca/marksman.php

It's really no big trick, but you do need to understand the problems and solutions.

The barrel needs to be chambered for a long seating depth around 2.6", this creates the first problem... finding a 223 mag that can feed a loaded cartridge that long.

Answer, Accurate Mag for 223, but you'll have to take it apart and tweak the inserts to extend the length. I can tell you how to do that, if interested.

You will need a 1:7 or 1:6.5 twist barrel. I would go with 26 inches long as a minimum, longer is better.

So how do you hit 2900 FPS?

Answer... Seat the bullets to an OAL of 2.6" or longer and use fire formed cases. I have not been able to hit 2900 FPS with full length resized brass, but the increased volume of a fired formed 223 case will get you there with good old Varget or 8208-XBR.

Lots of guys think the 223 is NFG for long range, but that's just not true. Most just don't know how to set up the rifle so it can be effective at long range.

I do have a hundred 90 grain Hornady A Tips (.585 G1 BC) slated for testing, but this Mexican beer virus is negatively affecting my shooting schedule.
 
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Maple57 said:
Bolt gun, not semi... I can tell you how to get 2900 FPS out of a 223 Rem with 88 grain Hornady ELD Match if that interests you... Guys always cringe when they read that, but it's been done in F Class for 20 years with 90 grain SMKs. You can probably find the article is here somewhere: http://www.dcra.ca/marksman.php

It's really no big trick, but you do need to understand the problems and solutions.

The barrel needs to be chambered for a long seating depth around 2.6", this creates the first problem... finding a 223 mag that can feed a loaded cartridge that long.

Answer, Accurate Mag for 223, but you'll have to take it apart and tweak the inserts to extend the length. I can tell you how to do that, if interested.

You will need a 1:7 or 1:6.5 twist barrel. I would go with 26 inches long as a minimum, longer is better.

So how do you hit 2900 FPS?

Answer... Seat the bullets to an OAL of 2.6" or longer and use fire formed cases. I have not been able to hit 2900 FPS with full length resized brass, but the increased volume of a fired formed 223 case will get you there with good old Varget or 8208-XBR.

Lots of guys think the 223 is NFG for long range, but that's just not true. Most just don't know how to set up the rifle so it can be effective at long range.

I do have a hundred 90 grain Hornady A Tips (.585 G1 BC) slated for testing, but this Mexican beer virus is negatively affecting my shooting schedule.
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When the title of the thread is ".224 SEMI with some legs" I fail to see how talking about a hot-rodded .223 with a COAL of 2.6" is at all helpful?
 
rugbydave said:
When the title of the thread is ".224 SEMI with some legs" I fail to see how talking about a hot-rodded .223 with a COAL of 2.6" is at all helpful?
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It does kind of set the benchmark. Nothing new to me though, I played with seating depth to get a bit more space for powder and to try and get 90gr SMK's to shoot, also get to the next node in a WM I had. I gave up on the SMK's after 100 projectiles, but the 300 WM was a monster, too expensive to shoot though.

My interest lies in being able to get 308/178gr performance out of an AR-15. I'd go for a BCL 102 Receiver Set, but as already mentioned I have an AR, and an upper that I can use for this project. I like .224" because the cost is reasonable for "practice" projectiles. I'll also consider a 6mm as 6mm Projectiles are also pretty reasonable if you can live with a modest 105gr HornyD HPBT. It looks like it's a toss up between something based off the 220 Russian/7.62X39, or 6.8 SPC/30 Rem.

The real key though is a projectile with a G1 of .450 to .500 going about 2800-2900 fps.
 
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Mystic Precision said:
https://sierrabullets.files.wordpress.com/2018/03/224-valkyrie1.pdf

In case you haven't seen this data.

Jerry
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Hey Jerry, those must be some pretty tame max loads? I haven't played around with a Valkyrie yet but I run 25.0gr of Varget behind a 75gr BTHP in a plain old .223 case (granted loaded to 2.350") and get 2930ish out of a 26" 1/7 barrel with no pressure signs. 24.8gr of Varget as a max load getting 2800fps out of a 24" barrel seems a bit slow. I was kinda hoping that the Valkyrie would have enough (or close to) legs to get close to the same performance I get out of my 26" bolt gun in a 20" semi.
 
ARs do not produce the same speeds per powder input. There is alot of energy lost in moving the BCG.

And then there is tuning and accuracy. I have yet to see AR15 or AR10 shoot very accurately at high pressures.

So it doesn't surprise me at all to see 100 to 200fps lower in an AR type platform vs a bolt.

Jerry
 
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