Best HD option in .223?

Meroh said:
A short shotgun; double barrel or pump. Noise? Use light target loads; even a dose of #9 shot will provide ample incentive for an intruder to F-off. If the intruders are 4 legged, including bears; 000 buckshot.
Non Lethal loads might be better for home defense if it is two legged you are concerned about; may be less chance of you ending up in jail.
Click to expand...

This is wrong in many levels. Let's talk about the obvious ones.

If you are shooting at someone to convince him or her to F off, you will go to jail right the way in Canada. If you are truly fearful for your life and resort to deadly force ( a firearm is deadly force, #9 shot is deadly force), your intention is not to dispatch someone but to stop the threat. If you do not need to stop the threat, you are not really in the amount of life threatening danger that warrants deadly force and the use of any firearms.

If you are actually in danger and you shoot non-lethal, you are bringing a knife to a gunfight. If you are really not in that much danger and not concerning with preserving life, shooting a non-lethal will be a ticket to jail for assault and other firearms related charges.
 
Last edited:
t23GSdH.jpg
 
Last edited:
greentips said:
It all depends if you in suburb, rural area, condo or urban houses.

I will say rifle should only be considered if you have a large property and your "legal defensive scenario" includes outdoor and firing into the outdoor where there are absolutely no other houses in a mile or two, or there is a good back drop.

Otherwise, handgun makes the most sense for most normal residential indoor, unless you are in a large "mansion". Your typical carbine is too long for the regular residential indoor, especially with all the tight space in a typical normal house. An extra hand for light/phone/manipulation of light switches-doors-alarm system should be considered

The only good thing about shotgun is that it is "common" and "non offensive" in the eyes of judges and juries, but it is terrible because pellets fly everywhere and you need to have 100% accountability of where the projectiles go. It is also long, same issue as a carbine.
Click to expand...

I would agree for people well trained in pistol use, however the average joe can't hit anything to save their life in a stressful situation.

You should always be avoiding confrontation in a home invasion. Have a room you can lock and have your family know to go straight to that room should anything crazy happen. Lock the door, call 911, and sit with your firearm. If the bad guys come in the room, well you know the rest.
 
gentlemanfarmer said:
jiffx2781 said:
If you are set on using a 223...

IMG_0215-e1571619759385.jpeg


$3500 with optics but a fine rifle to be sure. I had a great time shooting my friend's X95. As accurate as my T97NSR with LHG trigger group.

PinaKaleada
Absolutely not a T97 unless you just want to brandish the gun and not actually use it. It's unreliable as hell.


I put 8000 rounds through my T97NSR. It is a satisfactory weapon with suitable accuracy for the design. It is an $1100 rifle (as at April 2020 but I paid $800) if you can find it due to high demand. Reliability, durability and ease of manufacture are the obvious design priorities but as accurate as any IWI X95.
Click to expand...

Accuracy it was decent. It’s just that you have to take care not to push up, forward or backwards on the mag, which changes the feed angle. Ejection is 100%, but the feeding is the Achilles heel for it.

I’d gladly pay 2x for 1 Tavor knowing that the performance and reliability is more than 2x T97
Click to expand...
 
driller212 said:
I would agree for people well trained in pistol use, however the average joe can't hit anything to save their life in a stressful situation.

You should always be avoiding confrontation in a home invasion. Have a room you can lock and have your family know to go straight to that room should anything crazy happen. Lock the door, call 911, and sit with your firearm. If the bad guys come in the room, well you know the rest.
Click to expand...

This is the answer right here, that and a yappy Dog. No warning shot, everyone in the same room, let them know the Cops have been called, and sit tight.

PinaKaleada, quit while your ahead, so what if you do, or don't use your sights when your pants are filling with poop. You train with them, full stop.
 
Fuzzy Wool Hat said:
Thinking about setting up a sandbag bunker in the corner of my bedroom and mounting this thing. Experts please critique my HD plan thx....
Click to expand...

Just remember to brace the floor, and some plate steel on the opposite side of the hall might be a good idea. "Hey what do you suppose these steel plates are for?", stifled chuckle comes from bedroom...
 
shawn said:
I dont need to watch it, I have done it. I used my sights and so did everyone else

IF you train you will use your sights, you may not remember it but you will

Shawn
Click to expand...

In any of the rooms in my house the slide is the only set of sights I will need.

I don't need to clear the house, I have dogs for that.
 
shawn said:
No you are trying to move the goal posts to try and prove yourself correct

I never said any of that BS

So lets use you own logic, Colion Nior has not been in a home defense situation where he had the need to fire specifically a handgun at someone in a home defense situation. Colion Noir has not provided detailed information about the situation(s), and outcome including details including law enforcement reactions

Guess since you say so that means your own argument is BS

What I will tell you is that I was referring to force on force training using sims. Which you and I both know is what I was referencing as you stated that I was incorrect because you found a youtube video of a guy doing it for the first time and declaring that as proof that no one will use their sights. On top of that he was using his sights watch the video, he just did not remember doing it as that is part of the process the body goes through in fight or flight, hard target focus. Which btw is what I said, they would be used but not remembered.

Physiologically the body does a lot of things during a gun fight, some of which can be mitigated with training, some you cant. Its the same reason most people that have been in civilian gun fights cant tell you they saw their sights, how many rounds they fired or how long the gun fight took. Because you body it prioritizing functions to win the fight.

I have done plenty of force on force including sims and used my sights and so has everyone else. Which is what I stated. The only time some people didn't use their sights was the people picking up a gun for the first time and had not trained. They panicked

There is mountains of information on this google it, from more qualified people than me or a lawyer that likes guns and make youtube videos.

Which is why I stated get training, train and use your sights.

Shawn
Click to expand...


One more for you, seems to be saying why people don’t seem to use sights the same way you would at a paper target.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, he said the exact same thing I did

shawn said:
Physiologically the body does a lot of things during a gun fight, some of which can be mitigated with training, some you cant. Its the same reason most people that have been in civilian gun fights cant tell you they saw their sights, how many rounds they fired or how long the gun fight took. Because you body it prioritizing functions to win the fight.
Click to expand...

This is not new, this is well known. There is a reason training is the way it is and a reason guns have sights. Or are you trying to claim that every one that has ever been shot has been a lucky shot by people using spray and pray.

You need to really do some research on this and not just watch youtube. Start by read on killing and on combat by col. Grossman

Shawn
 
Or are you trying to claim that every one that has ever been shot has been a lucky shot by people using spray and pray
Click to expand...

Are you trying to say... that I'm trying to claim....Let's stop with the intentional misunderstanding.

Let me switch this "are you saying" nonsense back on you. Are you saying it is difficult for you to hit a torso sized target at 3-5 meters unless you put that front dot between the rear two dots, and then put this cluster at the center of the target before pulling the trigger? :rolleyes:

I'll say again, at 3-5 meters(room size range) it's not difficult to point-and-shoot without using sights. If you couldn't do this, you might need some more practice. Any further you will start to have to aim with sights. It's hard to misread what I'm saying.
 
Last edited:
PinaKaleada said:
Are you trying to say... that I'm trying to claim....Let's stop with the intentional misunderstanding.

Let me switch this "are you saying" nonsense back on you. Are you saying it is difficult for you to hit a torso sized target at 3-5 meters unless you put that front dot between the rear two dots, and then put this cluster at the center of the target before pulling the trigger? :rolleyes:

I'll say again, at 3-5 meters(room size range) it's not difficult to point-and-shoot without using sights. If you couldn't do this, you might need some more practice. Any further you will start to have to aim with sights. It's hard to misread what I'm saying.
Click to expand...

Got it

You are claiming, as a statement of fact, that at 5m or 16ft, you can guarantee that all your rounds will land within a 10 inch circle under stress in the dark when you were not planning on a gun fight. All while your target is moving, unlit, the target is at an oblique angle, and you cant see the 10 inch circle because it is under one or more baggy layers of clothes

Yeah tell us more how lobbing rounds around you house with out using your sights is a good idea:rolleyes:

Sorry but point shooting is BS for the most part, at 3 feet yes let her rip at 5m you are delusional

Shawn
 
shawn said:
Got it

You are claiming, as a statement of fact, that at 5m or 16ft, you can guarantee that all your rounds will land within a 10 inch circle under stress in the dark when you were not planning on a gun fight. All while your target is moving, unlit, the target is at an oblique angle, and you cant see the 10 inch circle because it is under one or more baggy layers of clothes

Yeah tell us more how lobbing rounds around you house with out using your sights is a good idea:rolleyes:

Sorry but point shooting is BS for the most part, at 3 feet yes let her rip at 5m you are delusional

Shawn
Click to expand...

SO.... you're saying point-and-shoot at 5 meters means lobbing rounds around? No seriously, pull out that tape measure and visualize 5 meters for a little bit.

I wouldn't call you delusional for not being able to point and shoot 5 meters though. I'd call you something else ;)
 
Range =/= force on force / reality

I am sure you can point shoot supper great on the range, in reality not so much. I cant think of a single reputable trainer that recommends "point" shooting for anything other than shoot from retention unless you think Voda is reputable.

Sorry you can claim its not far on the range at a perfect 90% to the target all you want, it does not change the fact that it is simple is not a good choice tactically or morally in reality

Shawn
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom