Best bang for your buck NR black rifle?
- Thread starter stoop14
- Start date
Big bore dinosaur
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- NORT OF COW.TOWN.EH
Chiappa little badger
The BCL SLR Coyote has the potential to be the best "bang for your buck". I say "potential" because they aren't in customers hands yet so nobody really knows what the build quality is like or how they perform.
But my favorite NR black rifles are from ATRS.
But my favorite NR black rifles are from ATRS.
ThatM305Guy
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- North Texas
I'd say its between the KelTec RDB and the new BCL Coyote.
Having said that, if you're REALLY frugal, and patient, you can build out a MS or SLR for less than 1500
Having said that, if you're REALLY frugal, and patient, you can build out a MS or SLR for less than 1500
onetwentyish
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Central AB (AKA Northern Texas)
I agree with this man!
Solid advice
x2.
Can we please have some sort of automated response to threads like this?
Two points of warning:
1. Though I have put some humor in this my points are serious except where it's obvious that they are not
2. DO, NOT, PRE-ORDER. It's basically been one example after another of companies giving you the chance to give them money and get nothing back in return. Examples include:
- WK180C (Wolverine Supplies and Kodiak Defence had a divorce, those on the waiting list obviously then didn't get the rifle though the rifle is still being made by KD. During the marriage people like myself were able to buy WK180Cs from shops while people who had been on the list for months were not getting them)
- WK180C NSR (It's been months now and it just doesn't seem to exist)
- Troy 5.56 (I can't remember the exact name), basically died a quiet insignificant death and customers were told to they had to request their money back (no automatic returns WTF)
To Summarise:
$800 + $1000 Norinco Type 97 Gen 1 + 2, 5.56, some STANAG/AR magazines, Bullpup configuration. This is a lottery rifle, you may get one that functions very well, you may get a nightmare child that will result in hair loss. There is a reason this rifle is priced this way. NB: It has a strong following from some people, but no-one knows if these people are firing 5 or 500 rounds on each range trip.
- The Good, It might shoot ok, around 3-4MOA
- The Bad, whoever designed this rifle hates you, the safety is in a ridiculous location, when disassembled the rifle breaks into three or more parts and requires a third arm to re-assemble. The top rail can come loose, ensure to red loctite it on day 1. It will destroy your brass and will not function with many STANAG/AR magazines. Failure to feed stoppages are common. Made in China, China Bad, 4 legs good.
$1000 Type 81 in 7.62x39, a Chinese SKS + AK mongrel that aimed to get better accuracy while maintaining AK reliability. It achieved neither. This is predominantly an iron sighted rifle that uses horrific iron sights.
- The Good: It looks pretty cool and your American friends will be envious because they can't get them. A unique rifle in history.
- The Bad: 5 - 8MOA (No really, check youtube for an extensive test showing this), uses proprietary magazines, is allegedly no longer being made so spare parts from where? Made in China, China Bad, 4 legs good.
$1100, WK180C from Kodiak Defence, 5.56, STANAG/AR magazines, AR trigger, AR Safety, Full top cover rail, cocking handle can be placed on both sides.
- The Good: gets 2MOA from bulk 55gr American Eagle, cycles reliably while parts are all working. Very large aftermarket to upgrade the rifle as you want it. Made in Canada.
- The Bad: parts breakages are more common than desirable however Kodiak is very quick to replace parts. The two most common parts to break are the cocking handle and the piston. The rifle can continue to function without the former.
$1150, KELTEC SU-16, a light weigh rifle that seems to be around 2-3MOA, STANAG/AR magazines and comes in 5.56. Made in USA.
The Good: lightweight, affordable, reliable rifle that functions well.
The Bad: Plastic receiver seems to have a high frequency of breaking than other rifles, you can feel comforted however in the knowledge that an explosion isn't happening by your face every time you pull the trigger.
$1200, Ruger Mini 14, a light, 5.56 rifle, that gives around 3-4MOA, uses propriatory magazines so no 10 rounders for you. Made in USA.
- The Good, it's a reliable, acceptably accurate rifle from a reputable manufacturer that has been used for decades. The aftermarket is reasonable.
- The Bad, unlike other choices it does not use STANAG/AR magazines, so expensive 5 rounders only. Likewise the aftermarket is more expensive and things like changing the trigger etc are quite a lot more expensive. The rifle just isn't as adjustable as say the WK180C, WS-MCR, BCL Coyote etc etc.
$1300??? WK180 NSR, A Kodiak Defence and North Sylva monster that definitely didn't come about as a result of monstrous bedroom activities. It's basically the WK180C but with a AR-15 style cocking handle, a case deflector and an improved trigger over the WK180C. This rifle as of yet has not been made.
$1300, The WS-MCR from Wolverine Supplies, basically the same thing as the WK180C but with some extras added in and hopefully has resolved the issues of the WK180C which was originally developed by Wolverine Supplies. Not many of these are on the market yet, time will tell whether they really are an improvement on the WK180C, hopefully someone will do a 5000 round test or something.
- The Good, probably the same as the WK180C. Also comes in 7.62x39 and .223 Valkyrie for a couple $100 more. Made in Canada.
- The Bad, uses at least one 3D printed part, whether this is present in all of their rifles or only the initial ones should be fact checked.
$1500, KelTec RDB, Bullpup configuration, 5.56, STANAG/AR Magazines, Made in USA.
- The Good: 2MOA accuracy, reliable, effective rifle
- The Bad: Unobtanium, these rifles do exist in secret dwarf caves, with sufficient sacrifices you will find one in stock. Also clearing stoppages is a beast because the ejection port is downward facing, if you get a stoppage you need to partially dissasemble the rifle. The solution to this is to find the ammo it likes and stick with it.
$1500, The CSA VZ58 (5.56 and 7.62x39) a hardcore proven Cold War beast, circa 3MOA accuracy with 7.62x39 surplus this old girl will not fail you
- The Good, 3MOA with affordable surplus, will keep going no matter how hard you cry, can accept 10round LAR mags in 5.56 variant, can take scopes with side rail
- The Bad, Mounting optics is not ideal due to side rail, cheek rest may not be ideal
$1549, The BCL Coyote, an as of yet unproven rifle. TO be very clear this is because they have only just hit the market. 5.56, STANAG/AR magazines, AR trigger, AR Safety, Full top cover rail, Made in Canada
- Potential Good: Uses many AR parts including the BCG. This enables access to high quality but affordable parts due to USA economies of scale. Claims accuracy of better than 2MOA. BCL is using Maccabee SLR receivers, Maccabee makes quality rifles, the odds of them teaming up with a low quality manufacturer is low.
- Potential Bad: BCL manufacturing quality prior to it's take over was very poor. HOWEVER, since it's take over ti seems to have got it's act together and is producing the BLC MK7 rifles which appear to have resolved all the previous issues. Will the Coyote be of similar quality? Time will tell.
$1500 upwards. The Maccabee SLR and the Modern Sporter. Both AR type rifles, both not being made in anywhere high enough numbers, both excellent rifles by all reports. A wealth of knowledge exists about these rifles so I suggest you use google fu. Made in Canada.
- The Good: They're basically NR ARs. After possibly a year or more (fact check that number) once finally get your rifle though you can endlessly respond to threads where people ask what Black NR rifle to get by saying "jUSt gET A mOdErn SPorTeR"
- The Bad: Long wait lists, slow production, high price and you need to know your #### when ordering.
$2000, HK SL8, The Sporter variant of the HK36, there is a wealth of knowledge and detailed review on the internet, go and check them out.
- Note: If you buy this you will do so in the knowledge that you can't afford the G36, this will haunt you for the rest of your life. You will feel weak and humiliated by actual G36 owners and will feel forced to show your HK power to none-HK owners.
$2400, The X95, The Semi Auto variant of the Israeli forces standard issue rifle (I believe). Great for shooting, great controls, short, handy and good for competition shooting out to 200m
- The Good: AR Magazines, reliable, bullpup configuration awesomeness, doesn't really care if you enjoy bacon
- The Bad: You just spent $2400 on a 3-4MOA rifle, that's fine for urban fighting but the closest you'll get is being gunned down on live TV while doing a forward roll out of your window to break a police seige. Silver lining, pictures of your naked gravy smeared corpse will be a meme forever.
$3100, Robinson Arms XCR-L, 5.56 STANAG/AR magazine fed rifle, flat top railed receiver, ambidextrous (I think), solid rifle
The Good: Built like a tank, easy to change barrels, OK accuracy (3MOA I think), Ambidextrous, Allegedly used by some special forces so you can pretend you're one of them
The Bad: At the range some dude with a $750 Smith & Wesson M&P 15 II will shoot better than you and you will feel forced to explain that your rifle really is used by Special Forces. While doing so your trouser belt will finally break under the pressure of 40 years of poor life choices.
$3220, The Bushmaster ACR DMR, I don't have experience with this rifle. From what I understand however it's accuracy is not Designated Marksman level and it isn't even being made anymore.
$8000, HK G36. The German Army Standard Issue in 5.56, there is a wealth of knowledge out there go and check it out.
- The Good, if you own one you are better than everyone else. imbued by HK smugness you will never even need to take your rifle out of the box.
- The Bad, you will never financially recover from buying this rifle unless you are in a position to buy 10. If you are not in a position to buy 10 your partner will leave you when they find out how much you spent on this rifle.
- The mixed, your hair will turn blonde, you will grow to be 2m tall and your ancestors will smile upon you as you reach genetic perfection
BONUS RIFLE!!!!
$250, the SKS a 7.62x39 stripper clip loaded semi-auto rifle of manliness
The Good:
- It's a 6MOA semi-auto Goliath that allows you to enforce Soviet strength on the world in an affordable manner.
- No matter what ammo you put in this rifle it will function
- Women and Children will weep in fear at the mere sight of you
- Ownership of this rifle instantly enables you to Bench Press 500kg or a full grown unwilling angry Grizzly bear on steroids
- Comes with wood stock which can be burnt in emergency situation, rifle will still function without it (maybe)
- Bayonet allows for tight groupings, sneer at other shooters spending $5 on a 3 round 1MOA group and simply stab the target instantly creating a $0 1MOA group
- Mongolians will love you
The Bad:
- Ownership can cause spontaneous combustion among the weak
- Mongolians will love you more than you are comfortable with
Two points of warning:
1. Though I have put some humor in this my points are serious except where it's obvious that they are not
2. DO, NOT, PRE-ORDER. It's basically been one example after another of companies giving you the chance to give them money and get nothing back in return. Examples include:
- WK180C (Wolverine Supplies and Kodiak Defence had a divorce, those on the waiting list obviously then didn't get the rifle though the rifle is still being made by KD. During the marriage people like myself were able to buy WK180Cs from shops while people who had been on the list for months were not getting them)
- WK180C NSR (It's been months now and it just doesn't seem to exist)
- Troy 5.56 (I can't remember the exact name), basically died a quiet insignificant death and customers were told to they had to request their money back (no automatic returns WTF)
To Summarise:
$800 + $1000 Norinco Type 97 Gen 1 + 2, 5.56, some STANAG/AR magazines, Bullpup configuration. This is a lottery rifle, you may get one that functions very well, you may get a nightmare child that will result in hair loss. There is a reason this rifle is priced this way. NB: It has a strong following from some people, but no-one knows if these people are firing 5 or 500 rounds on each range trip.
- The Good, It might shoot ok, around 3-4MOA
- The Bad, whoever designed this rifle hates you, the safety is in a ridiculous location, when disassembled the rifle breaks into three or more parts and requires a third arm to re-assemble. The top rail can come loose, ensure to red loctite it on day 1. It will destroy your brass and will not function with many STANAG/AR magazines. Failure to feed stoppages are common. Made in China, China Bad, 4 legs good.
$1000 Type 81 in 7.62x39, a Chinese SKS + AK mongrel that aimed to get better accuracy while maintaining AK reliability. It achieved neither. This is predominantly an iron sighted rifle that uses horrific iron sights.
- The Good: It looks pretty cool and your American friends will be envious because they can't get them. A unique rifle in history.
- The Bad: 5 - 8MOA (No really, check youtube for an extensive test showing this), uses proprietary magazines, is allegedly no longer being made so spare parts from where? Made in China, China Bad, 4 legs good.
$1100, WK180C from Kodiak Defence, 5.56, STANAG/AR magazines, AR trigger, AR Safety, Full top cover rail, cocking handle can be placed on both sides.
- The Good: gets 2MOA from bulk 55gr American Eagle, cycles reliably while parts are all working. Very large aftermarket to upgrade the rifle as you want it. Made in Canada.
- The Bad: parts breakages are more common than desirable however Kodiak is very quick to replace parts. The two most common parts to break are the cocking handle and the piston. The rifle can continue to function without the former.
$1150, KELTEC SU-16, a light weigh rifle that seems to be around 2-3MOA, STANAG/AR magazines and comes in 5.56. Made in USA.
The Good: lightweight, affordable, reliable rifle that functions well.
The Bad: Plastic receiver seems to have a high frequency of breaking than other rifles, you can feel comforted however in the knowledge that an explosion isn't happening by your face every time you pull the trigger.
$1200, Ruger Mini 14, a light, 5.56 rifle, that gives around 3-4MOA, uses propriatory magazines so no 10 rounders for you. Made in USA.
- The Good, it's a reliable, acceptably accurate rifle from a reputable manufacturer that has been used for decades. The aftermarket is reasonable.
- The Bad, unlike other choices it does not use STANAG/AR magazines, so expensive 5 rounders only. Likewise the aftermarket is more expensive and things like changing the trigger etc are quite a lot more expensive. The rifle just isn't as adjustable as say the WK180C, WS-MCR, BCL Coyote etc etc.
$1300??? WK180 NSR, A Kodiak Defence and North Sylva monster that definitely didn't come about as a result of monstrous bedroom activities. It's basically the WK180C but with a AR-15 style cocking handle, a case deflector and an improved trigger over the WK180C. This rifle as of yet has not been made.
$1300, The WS-MCR from Wolverine Supplies, basically the same thing as the WK180C but with some extras added in and hopefully has resolved the issues of the WK180C which was originally developed by Wolverine Supplies. Not many of these are on the market yet, time will tell whether they really are an improvement on the WK180C, hopefully someone will do a 5000 round test or something.
- The Good, probably the same as the WK180C. Also comes in 7.62x39 and .223 Valkyrie for a couple $100 more. Made in Canada.
- The Bad, uses at least one 3D printed part, whether this is present in all of their rifles or only the initial ones should be fact checked.
$1500, KelTec RDB, Bullpup configuration, 5.56, STANAG/AR Magazines, Made in USA.
- The Good: 2MOA accuracy, reliable, effective rifle
- The Bad: Unobtanium, these rifles do exist in secret dwarf caves, with sufficient sacrifices you will find one in stock. Also clearing stoppages is a beast because the ejection port is downward facing, if you get a stoppage you need to partially dissasemble the rifle. The solution to this is to find the ammo it likes and stick with it.
$1500, The CSA VZ58 (5.56 and 7.62x39) a hardcore proven Cold War beast, circa 3MOA accuracy with 7.62x39 surplus this old girl will not fail you
- The Good, 3MOA with affordable surplus, will keep going no matter how hard you cry, can accept 10round LAR mags in 5.56 variant, can take scopes with side rail
- The Bad, Mounting optics is not ideal due to side rail, cheek rest may not be ideal
$1549, The BCL Coyote, an as of yet unproven rifle. TO be very clear this is because they have only just hit the market. 5.56, STANAG/AR magazines, AR trigger, AR Safety, Full top cover rail, Made in Canada
- Potential Good: Uses many AR parts including the BCG. This enables access to high quality but affordable parts due to USA economies of scale. Claims accuracy of better than 2MOA. BCL is using Maccabee SLR receivers, Maccabee makes quality rifles, the odds of them teaming up with a low quality manufacturer is low.
- Potential Bad: BCL manufacturing quality prior to it's take over was very poor. HOWEVER, since it's take over ti seems to have got it's act together and is producing the BLC MK7 rifles which appear to have resolved all the previous issues. Will the Coyote be of similar quality? Time will tell.
$1500 upwards. The Maccabee SLR and the Modern Sporter. Both AR type rifles, both not being made in anywhere high enough numbers, both excellent rifles by all reports. A wealth of knowledge exists about these rifles so I suggest you use google fu. Made in Canada.
- The Good: They're basically NR ARs. After possibly a year or more (fact check that number) once finally get your rifle though you can endlessly respond to threads where people ask what Black NR rifle to get by saying "jUSt gET A mOdErn SPorTeR"
- The Bad: Long wait lists, slow production, high price and you need to know your #### when ordering.
$2000, HK SL8, The Sporter variant of the HK36, there is a wealth of knowledge and detailed review on the internet, go and check them out.
- Note: If you buy this you will do so in the knowledge that you can't afford the G36, this will haunt you for the rest of your life. You will feel weak and humiliated by actual G36 owners and will feel forced to show your HK power to none-HK owners.
$2400, The X95, The Semi Auto variant of the Israeli forces standard issue rifle (I believe). Great for shooting, great controls, short, handy and good for competition shooting out to 200m
- The Good: AR Magazines, reliable, bullpup configuration awesomeness, doesn't really care if you enjoy bacon
- The Bad: You just spent $2400 on a 3-4MOA rifle, that's fine for urban fighting but the closest you'll get is being gunned down on live TV while doing a forward roll out of your window to break a police seige. Silver lining, pictures of your naked gravy smeared corpse will be a meme forever.
$3100, Robinson Arms XCR-L, 5.56 STANAG/AR magazine fed rifle, flat top railed receiver, ambidextrous (I think), solid rifle
The Good: Built like a tank, easy to change barrels, OK accuracy (3MOA I think), Ambidextrous, Allegedly used by some special forces so you can pretend you're one of them
The Bad: At the range some dude with a $750 Smith & Wesson M&P 15 II will shoot better than you and you will feel forced to explain that your rifle really is used by Special Forces. While doing so your trouser belt will finally break under the pressure of 40 years of poor life choices.
$3220, The Bushmaster ACR DMR, I don't have experience with this rifle. From what I understand however it's accuracy is not Designated Marksman level and it isn't even being made anymore.
$8000, HK G36. The German Army Standard Issue in 5.56, there is a wealth of knowledge out there go and check it out.
- The Good, if you own one you are better than everyone else. imbued by HK smugness you will never even need to take your rifle out of the box.
- The Bad, you will never financially recover from buying this rifle unless you are in a position to buy 10. If you are not in a position to buy 10 your partner will leave you when they find out how much you spent on this rifle.
- The mixed, your hair will turn blonde, you will grow to be 2m tall and your ancestors will smile upon you as you reach genetic perfection
BONUS RIFLE!!!!
$250, the SKS a 7.62x39 stripper clip loaded semi-auto rifle of manliness
The Good:
- It's a 6MOA semi-auto Goliath that allows you to enforce Soviet strength on the world in an affordable manner.
- No matter what ammo you put in this rifle it will function
- Women and Children will weep in fear at the mere sight of you
- Ownership of this rifle instantly enables you to Bench Press 500kg or a full grown unwilling angry Grizzly bear on steroids
- Comes with wood stock which can be burnt in emergency situation, rifle will still function without it (maybe)
- Bayonet allows for tight groupings, sneer at other shooters spending $5 on a 3 round 1MOA group and simply stab the target instantly creating a $0 1MOA group
- Mongolians will love you
The Bad:
- Ownership can cause spontaneous combustion among the weak
- Mongolians will love you more than you are comfortable with
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I’ll add a little of my ACR insight. Mine shoots all bulk 223 better than any of my previous NR rifles including my Swiss Arms. It has a preference for heaver loads like 62gr + due I suspect to the fast twist 1:7. Mine has been bullet proof reliable and feeds from any magazine I’ve inserted. My only complaint is weight but it does have a heavy barrel.
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Throw a comment on the thread I have made and I will look at updating the post. Especially if you can provide a picture or something
What's your point?
My point is:
Some may agree with some points on some rifles, while others not so much. For the most part it is subjective nonsense therefore = circle jerk.
Take your long winded post above as an example, (very well done, btw - quite entertaining) the probability of a WK-180 maintaining 2 Moa with bulk dirty bird is laughable.
The description of the Type 81 having "horrific iron sights" when in reality it has a pretty common front post and rear leaf common with military rifles for going on, I dunno, something like 200 years...wait, maybe those were the humorous parts you warned readers of?
Some may agree with some points on some rifles, while others not so much. For the most part it is subjective nonsense therefore = circle jerk.
Take your long winded post above as an example, (very well done, btw - quite entertaining) the probability of a WK-180 maintaining 2 Moa with bulk dirty bird is laughable.
The description of the Type 81 having "horrific iron sights" when in reality it has a pretty common front post and rear leaf common with military rifles for going on, I dunno, something like 200 years...wait, maybe those were the humorous parts you warned readers of?
islandhunter
CGN Regular
- Location
- princeton b.c.
^^^ great post! l had a T97 gen2 That never hiccupped and was surprisingly accurate. I hope Mike is enjoying it now
