zamak strong enough for .22lr

I guess we will see if CNC is used with steel I guess other calibers are an option as well. I think I will make model out of wood and or functioning proto type out of steel that i can coble together here in the basement. what's the new rule for marking a homemade rifle I think I seen it somewhere just can't find it now.

i have thought about something like a model 60 but don't know if their patent protected.

Material is cheap, likely the cheapest part of the end product. By the end of the day, taxes, wages, insurance, advertising, and a dozen or more other expenses are like to carry the major portions of the actual costs to put a product on the sales table.

There's enough third rate excrement out there already, aim higher. Just like in bicycles, you will never succeed, trying to be the guy making the cheapest one. But if you can charge a lot of money to provide what the customer wants, and you can provide that, you will do well in your niche.
 
You 'can' use zamack, but for anything but large scale production, the stuff will kill you on the dies costs, for use for something you won't be making millions of.

Despite the fact that Atlas Lathes used the stuff for gears, it should be remembered that Atlas lathes were about as low on the scale as could be got, in respect to being barely capable for their intended purpose, and the gears, if not kept in proper mesh, had a far shorter life span, than they would have had if they had been of sturdy materials.
And that completely ignores the numbers of zamack parts that have simply disintegrated for no apparent reason.

In the scheme of things, CNC equipment is cheap, and there are a whole bunch of third world countries willing to make cheap third world crap, so you would not be able to compete on price. So you might just as well plan around producing quality and skipping the whole zamack idea.


This guy knows what’s up! There seems to be this myth that anything done with casting or dies is more economical than machined parts. I built dies, punches and moulds for a few years. Take a guess where most of that stuff ends up if it proves viable... offshore if you don’t have plans to make 100 000 or a million of something then you are never going to pay off that initial investment. Ruger makes a lot of casting of other things in their foundry house you can see that when you watch their factory tour videos and if you have to compete with companies that already have a hold in the market you have to go for quality and innovation look at Tesla, Gunwerks, ATRC or any other premiere goods manufacturer.

Machined parts! You don’t pigeon hole yourself with dedicated equipment you can take on aerospace contracts, precision grinding always pays and you can finish your own parts!
 
Material is cheap, likely the cheapest part of the end product. By the end of the day, taxes, wages, insurance, advertising, and a dozen or more other expenses are like to carry the major portions of the actual costs to put a product on the sales table.

There's enough third rate excrement out there already, aim higher. Just like in bicycles, you will never succeed, trying to be the guy making the cheapest one. But if you can charge a lot of money to provide what the customer wants, and you can provide that, you will do well in your niche.

I guess we all can't be Henry ford and make stuff for the common man. I guess madding these convertible for different calibers would make them worth while for people would have to make the firing pin movable for center fire and rimfire or 2 different breech blocks.

good news is theirs always CNC equipment for sale down here as well as other machinery for other things.

we already have a firearms company here kodiak arms and with what I want to build I wouldn't be stepping on any toes.
 
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Yes they do, I've owned 2 of them and they are great revolvers with steel barrels and cylinders for both .22lr and magnum.

I find the trigger guard a bit small but it will shoot better than I can.
and there was a small bur on the hammer causing it to have a very light trigger first time I shot it it went off before I was ready good thing I was already pointing where I wanted it to go.
 
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I guess we all can't be Henry ford and make stuff for the common man.

Henry Ford made something that lots of people wanted, but few could afford, and he made them cheap enough that they could.

That does not at all describe the situation you intend to pursue, where there is already a pretty solidly competitive market place full of cheap options.

Busting your balls and risking your investment of time and money, to make a nickel or less and hour, does not seem a good way to go. Esp. when you cannot really count on the sales volume that Henry Ford could.

Realistically I would not expect there to be all that much of a market for that particular rifle unless sit had something going for it aside from being a slightly different single shot.

Worth taking note that even in it's own time, it wasn't much of a success.
 
Henry Ford made something that lots of people wanted, but few could afford, and he made them cheap enough that they could.

That does not at all describe the situation you intend to pursue, where there is already a pretty solidly competitive market place full of cheap options.

Busting your balls and risking your investment of time and money, to make a nickel or less and hour, does not seem a good way to go. Esp. when you cannot really count on the sales volume that Henry Ford could.

Realistically I would not expect there to be all that much of a market for that particular rifle unless sit had something going for it aside from being a slightly different single shot.

Worth taking note that even in it's own time, it wasn't much of a success.

I was looking at that action because it would have been easy to cast I could go with an easier to machine route. just throwing ideas around mainly this is not top priority. I may shoot some emails/calls around see what I can come up with. heck if machining is going to be a thing no reason something like a jones underlever couldn't be done and then it could be chambered for just about anything that may be a better idea a quality single shot rifle/shotgun
 
I like the idea of a quality single shot thats affordable. Even a classed up hnr type action. Nice case color hardening and figured wood. Small gauge shotguns and rimmed cartridges. 25/20. 25/35. 275r. 375r. 41mag
For rifles its basically ruger #1 or german and euro offerings for several grand
 
Someone built a couple single shots at home and detailed the entire process on here somewhere. His work was fascinating and the end result spectacular. I cant recal the details but if you could machine something the way he did you would find a market.
 
Someone built a couple single shots at home and detailed the entire process on here somewhere. His work was fascinating and the end result spectacular. I cant recal the details but if you could machine something the way he did you would find a market.

im thinking a jones under leaver would be better and could be put in a wide range of cartridges depending on the size of the action. I think if I could make one that would fit a 10ga you could have 10ga to .410 shotguns and just about any rimmed rifle cartridge imaginable trick is getting it done in the right price range to sell.

I doubt I could make the warner style carbine cheaply enough to sell it for $200(chiappa little badger) even if its cast in zamak. thing is id have to out source barrels till I could afford a rifling machine cheapest I can find is $45usd or so for .22lr and pistol calibers. then would people want it .22lr is good for small game while .44-40 and .45 colt could be used for deer at moderate ranges.

ps has anyone seen a jones under leaver with an center mounted hammer.
 
All the working parts of the Jones underlever rotary locking system are in front of the breech face, so there is no reason why a boxlock/center hammer action could not be used. Don't think diecast Zamak is an option for a Jones style action though. Looking at the contours of a 19th century Jones action shotgun I have, I think you would be looking at precision steel castings finished by machining, with a hand fitting component to the manufacture. Going to be an upscale gun, priced accordingly. Competing with No. 1s, 1885s, etc., with limited production driving the price even higher, like the Sharps rifles.
 
All the working parts of the Jones underlever rotary locking system are in front of the breech face, so there is no reason why a boxlock/center hammer action could not be used. Don't think diecast Zamak is an option for a Jones style action though. Looking at the contours of a 19th century Jones action shotgun I have, I think you would be looking at precision steel castings finished by machining, with a hand fitting component to the manufacture. Going to be an upscale gun, priced accordingly. Competing with No. 1s, 1885s, etc., with limited production driving the price even higher, like the Sharps rifles.

I was thinking more along the line of 4140 or 8620 something along those lines for the jones with cnc equipment being used. I have next to no machining background good thing 2 of my buddy's just entered this trade :). I will still look into the diecasting thing I think there may be a way to do it by outsourcing locally action would be something like the warner if I can keep the cost down.

I still have the drawings for a semi auto carbine as well but with this government wanting to ban just about anything and everything semi I don't think its a good idea what's the point of manufacturing something I can't sell.

I have thought about other firearms from things like the Richardson industries guerilla gun or a modernish flintlock trade gun mostly to stick the middle finger to the government especially with the flintlock being able to be bought by anyone.
 
The Richardson gun was a commercial failure decades ago. Should be able to sell a few for their novelty value. It could be the cheapest shotgun, maybe even the cheapest firearm on the market. Might be a bit of a liability nightmare.
If you are considering a semi auto carbine, think in terms of a PCC. Unlocked breech really simplifies construction. Die castings could be used for structural parts. But HiPoint is already doing it.
 
The Richardson gun was a commercial failure decades ago. Should be able to sell a few for their novelty value. It could be the cheapest shotgun, maybe even the cheapest firearm on the market. Might be a bit of a liability nightmare.
If you are considering a semi auto carbine, think in terms of a PCC. Unlocked breech really simplifies construction. Die castings could be used for structural parts. But HiPoint is already doing it.

I was thinking more along the lines of a sten just closed bolt with no sten gun parts(make sure a sten bolt wont fit) and an ar15 FCG. few machined parts but now that I think about it zamak could be used for the trigger housings also. just have to make sure full auto parts aren't drop in but with this political climate im not so sure.

that was the idea of copying the Richardson gun something super cheap for s***'s and giggles kind of proving the fact that laws don't work but I doubt it would sell and we live is a lawyer controlled world now.

I think a single shot with a rifle and shotgun barrel being interchangeable would sell well IE jones under lever. I think a inexpensive .22lr would sell well reason I like the warner is I think it would be easy to cast and its simple having a manual extractor and a simple hammer/trigger sear making it more reliable.

like I said previously firearms wouldn't be the only thing made and I already have prototypes for other things in the works just got to get them finished and some start up cash to put this plan In motion. I'm running around like a chicken with my head cut off right not finishing everything I need to for the time being around the house and working on other things bit by bit. theirs stuff I have been thinking up for the past decade that I'm more motivated to do now and have some extra funds to play with somewhat I was looking at used machine equipment all night last night it can be had reasonably.

ps is there any reason someone could just use a mold clamped together to cast this stuff instead of injecting/vacuumed casting im sure you would end up with more junk parts due to porosity and such.
 
I was thinking more along the lines of a sten just closed bolt with no sten gun parts(make sure a sten bolt wont fit) and an ar15 FCG. few machined parts but now that I think about it zamak could be used for the trigger housings also. just have to make sure full auto parts aren't drop in but with this political climate im not so sure.

that was the idea of copying the Richardson gun something super cheap for s***'s and giggles kind of proving the fact that laws don't work but I doubt it would sell and we live is a lawyer controlled world now.

I think a single shot with a rifle and shotgun barrel being interchangeable would sell well IE jones under lever. I think a inexpensive .22lr would sell well reason I like the warner is I think it would be easy to cast and its simple having a manual extractor and a simple hammer/trigger sear making it more reliable.

like I said previously firearms wouldn't be the only thing made and I already have prototypes for other things in the works just got to get them finished and some start up cash to put this plan In motion. I'm running around like a chicken with my head cut off right not finishing everything I need to for the time being around the house and working on other things bit by bit. theirs stuff I have been thinking up for the past decade that I'm more motivated to do now and have some extra funds to play with somewhat I was looking at used machine equipment all night last night it can be had reasonably.

ps is there any reason someone could just use a mold clamped together to cast this stuff instead of injecting/vacuumed casting im sure you would end up with more junk parts due to porosity and such.

Your gun idea sounds like a right dayglo abortion. The Sten not Sten,, with the AR fire control group. You realize of course, that to actually sell something like that, first the RCMP Tech lab needs to get their fingers in to it to see how easy it is to convert to full auto, among other things, yeah?
My honest opinion is that if the AR platform had to be imported now, it would not be able to, based on their methods. Esp since you can convert it with something as simple as a coat hanger wire.

You really do need to have a SOLID handle on the Materials and Processes side of Manufacturing, so you can better choose the materials, tools, and systems, that you will need, to avoid being driven into the poorhouse the first time someone gets hurt with one of your creations.
There are a lot of things that castings are a good choice for, and a lot of ways to make castings, as well as a lot of different materials. A good place to start, is the ASME Handbooks. American Society of Mechanical Engineers, IIRC. In highly condensed form, their book on castings weighs about 10 pounds. Then you need a handle on Machining processes, and to know what they can, and esp., can not do for you. As a very tiny start... And heat treating, because a lot of metals cannot be easily machined after they are hardened, so you need to at least know why and how it works, so you understand, even if someone else is actually doing the work.

You really gotta lose the 'cheap' idea. When every corner gas station also had guns and ammo for sale, cheap guns were a pretty viable market segment for those willing to make millions of pieces and make a nickel on every one. Almost none ofthose outfits are around any more. Cooey, for example.
Aim at quality. It sells for more money, you sell fewer pieces, but at a higher margin.
 
Your gun idea sounds like a right dayglo abortion. The Sten not Sten,, with the AR fire control group. You realize of course, that to actually sell something like that, first the RCMP Tech lab needs to get their fingers in to it to see how easy it is to convert to full auto, among other things, yeah?
My honest opinion is that if the AR platform had to be imported now, it would not be able to, based on their methods. Esp since you can convert it with something as simple as a coat hanger wire.

yes I know about the firearms lab and a lot of their tricks and that's why im not building it. I was referring to the sten as in tubing receiver and simple blow back operation btw as far as ar FCG go its out they do it down south because they can't have open bolt and trying to make an open bolt up here now would be next to impossible thanks to someone I wont mention.

I will go pick up a few books when I can already have some metallurgy stuff kicking around plus plenty of welding books going back to the 40's. myself I can't see playing with CNC equipment though reason I always have more than one project on the go is I lose interest after a while and go tinker with something else for a bit.

I think I found a better action than the warner for .22lr and pistol caliber possibly .410 as well and would not be in zamak but steel. a simple design much like the warner with manual extractor. I will go with the jones for bigger stuff though and that will be more of a quality thing.
 
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