Matching numbers rant

Numbers matching should mean just that. However, anyone who has been around milsurps for any length of time quickly realize that a number of genuine, "period correct" and "as issued" specimens aren't even numbers matching. During the war years, guns that saw a lot of service were damaged, wore out, repaired and upgraded continuously. Once deemed too worn for frontline issue, they were patched together and issued to reserve troops, rear echelon, or used for training.

I personally value a specimen that has survived one and possibly two world wars, its the history that interests me. A mismatched muzzle guard on a LE doesnt bother me if it was placed there by an armourer while the rifle was in service. Unfortunately, the "desporterized" stuff makes that a bit more difficult now.
 
Now, here is an exception, all M1941 Johnson Rifles will not have matching numbers like a Mauser K98. It's opposite.

Every part of a Johnson Rifle was assembled with mismatched numbers and recorded in a Ledger at the factory
when they were built.
Some of these Ledgers for certain letter blocks still exist and the data is still available. Some Ledgers were lost.
It is interesting to find for your rifle the day it was made, when it was shipped and where it was going, and all the serial numbers on the parts.
The Ledger will tell you if your rifle today is the same as when it left the factory.

Same idea as Winchester for build and ship date and where it was going for old Lever actions.

If you ever see a Johnson Rifle with all matching numbers, it is not correct, and has been faked by an unscrupulous seller trying for more money.
There are a few "enhanced Bad" examples that turned up over the years in the USA.
 
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perhaps its easier to describe the firearm to type out "all numbers match except xyz", instead of saying "the receiver, rear band, front band, cleaning rod, bolt body, safety, firing pin, stock, and trigger housing have matching numbers, but the magazine floorplate has a different number"
 
Rare is the best ee add ever.
Numbers match is a classic car thing that seams to have worked its way into the gun world
I laugh lots when i read it here and in the car world.
Numbers matching 1968 comaro except the engine. Lol
 
It really depends. As said before, if it’s understood how the surplus stuff was put together/manufactured for export/import makes a big difference. If you were actually old enough to own say an SKS before the 90’s when the 5 round limit came into effect, you may have been able to find an actual all numbers matching including magazine SKS. After the laws changed for Canada, magazines were stripped of a number pinned to 5 rounds and then the rifle number added once installed. If you’re a purest collector, all numbers matching means big things and command big money. I’m of the position, that as long as it is understood and correct for why it isn’t an exact match that’s fine.
 
Every legal SKS is buggered right off the bat. Nothing compared to a US model that doesn’t have a neutered magazine. The early Chinese model had the follower modified which left the mag unaltered.l Sad that most of our Russian imports were very poorly casteratedd
 
Coyote Ugly said:
Now, here is an exception, all M1941 Johnson Rifles will not have matching numbers like a Mauser K98. It's opposite.

Every part of a Johnson Rifle was assembled with mismatched numbers and recorded in a Ledger at the factory
when they were built.
Some of these Ledgers for certain letter blocks still exist and the data is still available. Some Ledgers were lost.
It is interesting to find for your rifle the day it was made, when it was shipped and where it was going, and all the serial numbers on the parts.
The Ledger will tell you if your rifle today is the same as when it left the factory.

Same idea as Winchester for build and ship date and where it was going for old Lever actions.

If you ever see a Johnson Rifle with all matching numbers, it is not correct, and has been faked by an unscrupulous seller trying for more money.
There are a few "enhanced Bad" examples that turned up over the years in the USA.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately the only ledger that survived was the one with no letter suffix,I have one with a B suffix and would like to know when it was made and where it went
 
I really dislike ones with titles "WTS Interesting/Rare/Cool/Kewl Rifles" and when you go in there is NOTHING interesting/rare/cool/kewl on what's offered.
Or ones titled the respective model of the rifle and when you go in the photos show BAM: SPORTERIZED and BUBBA'ED to death rifles.
 
DT741 said:
I raise you to "BNIB only shot one mag to function test"
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How many buy cars new off the lot with 100 or so KMs on it?

Most guns have 100's simulated round wear thru them during fitting, before they leave the factory. With a couple rounds put thru. No such thing as NIB..
 
People who describe something as 'rare' are generally just trying to add a few extra dollars to the value of what they're selling.

The term 'minty' bugs me too.
 
I’m only interested in the “all matching but...” rifles now. I have enough collector pieces that never see the light of day other than the occasional ogle.
I want interesting military rifles that the bolt matches the receiver, have a VG to EX bores and should make good shooting rifles that I can take to the range without worrying about value.
 
My personal favorite is obvious refurbs that have been renumbered listed as all matching. Seen this one a few times. "All matching Mosin M38 in M44 stock....."
 
MattE93 said:
My personal favorite is obvious refurbs that have been renumbered listed as all matching. Seen this one a few times. "All matching Mosin M38 in M44 stock....."
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That IS all matching.

It’s not factory original but it is matched to the rifle. Just as a part numbered to a rifle by a armourer is all matching, as it was matched to the rifle.
 
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