What 45-70 Dies will work with LEVERevolution brass ?

[Prairie Hunter]

I bought whole bunch of used Hornady Leverevolution 45-70 brass and box of new Hornady FTX 45-70 325g bullets, and started to search for die set and found out normal 45-70 die set will not work for it.

I wanted to stick with Hornady FTX 45-70 bullets since I have very good results with them. If you have experience to reload your own Hornady FTX 45-70 bullets, what die set would you recommend? Also, which powder do you use for it?

Thanks in advance!

 

['Boo]

I use regular Hornady dies and they work with the FTX and shorter brass.

Normally with cast and regular jacketed bullets I use the Hornady dies and crimp with a LEE "Factory Crimp".

The LEE die won't work with the shorter brass so I crimp using the Hornady seating die. (I seat and crimp in two separate steps)

 

[Prairie Hunter]

Thanks for the quick reply. There are many confusing info about Hornady Leverevolution reloading. I just want to make sure to get the right die set and to start reloading right away since I have more time on hands right now. Lol. Thanks to Covid19. Is this a 2 or 3 pieces die set?

 

['Boo]

Thanks for the quick reply. There are many confusing info about Hornady Leverevolution reloading. I just want to make sure to get the right die set and to start reloading right away since I have more time on hands right now. Lol. Thanks to Covid19. Is this a 2 or 3 pieces die set?

The Hornady is a 3 die set. I have mine mounted in a Lyman turret press along with the LEE crimp die and a powder measure. At the end of the day the 45-70 is just like an over-sized revolver cartridge.

 

[nowarningshot]

Why would there be a problem with dies? Perhaps the seating die is set up for a round/blunt nose. Just grab a seating stem out of a different die set. From my experience, thats the least of your worries. The hornady ftx ammo would not feed in my guide gun. It likes 405gr hard cast just fine.

 

[Prairie Hunter]

Hornady Leverevolution FTX 45-70 brass is shorter than standard 45-70 full length brass, so when FTX bullets were seated and crimped do not exceed SAMI specs. That's why if reloaded with normal die would have ejection problem.

 

[nowarningshot]

Hornady Leverevolution FTX 45-70 brass is shorter than standard 45-70 full length brass, so when FTX bullets were seated and crimped do not exceed SAMI specs. That's why if reloaded with normal die would have ejection problem.

Actually, it was a box of factory ftx that wouldnt feed. Jammed feeding the second shell. Good thing the bear was down, nowarningshot, as i had a single shot guide gun....no bayonet.

 

[244Ack]

I use lee dies with the leverevolution brass. Lee universal expander to flare the mouth and just put a nickel or a washer on top of the shellholder and use the Lee factory crimp die to crimp. For certain cast bullet loads I prefer the shorter brass. A few extra steps but it works for me

 

[fingers284]

There is no reason any of the die sets from different manuf. won't load satisfactory shells using the shorter brass. The only drawback being is that a the shorter brass will not be full-length sized absolutely perfectly to the degree that a longer case will be. the nose of the case just doesn't quite get to the end of the longer die body before the rim comes up against the die base but the case mouth difference will be so negligible as to be inconsequential ( the rest of the case is sized perfectly). With all the other dies, the shorter case just requires a die adjustment in the press to allow uniform results...a pain, but not insurmountable in the least.

 

[VanMan]

There is no reason any of the die sets from different manuf. won't load satisfactory shells using the shorter brass. The only drawback being is that a the shorter brass will not be full-length sized absolutely perfectly to the degree that a longer case will be. the nose of the case just doesn't quite get to the end of the longer die body before the rim comes up against the die base but the case mouth difference will be so negligible as to be inconsequential ( the rest of the case is sized perfectly). With all the other dies, the shorter case just requires a die adjustment in the press to allow uniform results...a pain, but not insurmountable in the least.

My Lee 45-70 crimp die activates off of the shell plate so just adjusting it down will not work. It still tries to crimp at the height of standard 45-70 brass even when a shorter Hornady brass is being used. I'm going to try using a washer on top of the shell plate as 244Ack suggested. It's completely counter-intuitive (to me at least), but will definitely work if I can find the right thickness washer. Great idea!

 

[CzyHorse]

I use lee dies with the leverevolution brass. Lee universal expander to flare the mouth and just put a nickel or a washer on top of the shellholder and use the Lee factory crimp die to crimp. For certain cast bullet loads I prefer the shorter brass. A few extra steps but it works for me

I can't picture where your putting this washer so you can crimp shorter brass with a #90856, Lee Factory Crimp die. A picture is worth a 1000 words.

 

[trebor2880]

Yes, a pic would be great. Please.

 

[VanMan]

I can't picture where your putting this washer so you can crimp shorter brass with a #90856, Lee Factory Crimp die. A picture is worth a 1000 words.

I haven't tried this suggestion yet, still thinking it through lol

Here is a pic that shows the challenges we are talking about. The crimp die on the left is the style that all my pistol crimp dies are. They activate from the top of the casing and are easily adjusted for varying height of pistol brass (eg I can adjust easily for 38sp vs 357mag on the same tool head if I wanted to). The Lee 45-70 crimp die I have is constructed like the one on the right. It activates off of the shell plate and the crimp height is at a fixed height.



Thinking this through now, putting a washer around the 45-70 case may not work as it would activate the crimp die sooner and increase the height of where the crimp occurs. I have read where people ground down (shortened) the collet so it activates later (lowering the height of where the crimp occurs).

 

[hatman1793]

Short brass or insignificant?
My box of factory Hornady LeverEvolution 325 grain FTX brass measures 52 mm.
My new unprimed Starline 45-70 brass measures 53 mm.
The LEE 45-70 reloading die set instruction sheet shows 45-70 brass length @ 53.46 mm.

So, it appears that perhaps the Hornady LeverEvolution brass is 1.0 - 1.5 mm less. That’s not *short* but insignificant in my book. Insignificant, I guess unless you are a 45-70 benchrest shooter.....

 

[VanMan]

Short brass or insignificant?
My box of factory Hornady LeverEvolution 325 grain FTX brass measures 52 mm.
My new unprimed Starline 45-70 brass measures 53 mm.
The LEE 45-70 reloading die set instruction sheet shows 45-70 brass length @ 53.46 mm.

So, it appears that perhaps the Hornady LeverEvolution brass is 1.0 - 1.5 mm less. That’s not *short* but insignificant in my book. Insignificant, I guess unless you are a 45-70 benchrest shooter.....

The difference in case length is significant enough that you can't crimp it using the Lee FCD. I just loaded up some rounds using Hornady brass and wasn't able to put a crimp on it no matter how low I adjusted the crimp die in the tool head. I compensated by adjusting to a minimal flair on the case so the bullets are just being held in by neck tension. The rounds chamber fine, but I would have preferred to be able to do a solid roll crimp into the cannelure for when I load up the tube in my 1895 ...

 

['Boo]

The rounds chamber fine, but I would have preferred to be able to do a solid roll crimp into the cannelure for when I load up the tube in my 1895 ...

Like I wrote at the beginning the factory seating dies from Hornady - and probably any brand other than LEE - can be set down low enough to crimp the FTX bullet in the shorter case. The photo I shared showing the 45-70 loaded with the FTX has a nice crimp into the cannelure of the bullet.

 

[hatman1793]

According to the LEE 45-70 Factory Crimp Die installation instructions, you screw the FCD into your press with your ram & shell holder all the way to the top. The crimp die touches the shell holder. Back off the ram and turn the die 1/2 a turn more in.

This is the beginning of the FCD process. Insert a loaded 45-70 round & crimp. Want more crimp? Screw the die in further.
On my RCBS RockChucker press, doing the above installation still gives me 3/4” downward play to screw the LEE FCD downwards.

One & a half millimeter case length difference is insignificant.

 

[VanMan]

According to the LEE 45-70 Factory Crimp Die installation instructions, you screw the FCD into your press with your ram & shell holder all the way to the top. The crimp die touches the shell holder. Back off the ram and turn the die 1/2 a turn more in.

This is the beginning of the FCD process. Insert a loaded 45-70 round & crimp. Want more crimp? Screw the die in further.
On my RCBS RockChucker press, doing the above installation still gives me 3/4” downward play to screw the LEE FCD downwards.

One & a half millimeter case length difference is insignificant.

I'm guessing you have not actually tried this yourself ... lol

Yes, setting the Lee factory crimp die up like this is correct and I crimp all my starline and other brass this way just fine. Adjusting it down to crimp Hornady brass will not work as the crimp still occurs 1.5 mm above the lip of the brass, so the brass will not be crimped properly.

Good to know about the Hornady crimp die. Sounds like that is the solution for the shorter brass.

 

[244Ack]

I haven't tried this suggestion yet, still thinking it through lol

Here is a pic that shows the challenges we are talking about. The crimp die on the left is the style that all my pistol crimp dies are. They activate from the top of the casing and are easily adjusted for varying height of pistol brass (eg I can adjust easily for 38sp vs 357mag on the same tool head if I wanted to). The Lee 45-70 crimp die I have is constructed like the one on the right. It activates off of the shell plate and the crimp height is at a fixed height.

View attachment 378350

Thinking this through now, putting a washer around the 45-70 case may not work as it would activate the crimp die sooner and increase the height of where the crimp occurs. I have read where people ground down (shortened) the collet so it activates later (lowering the height of where the crimp occurs).

I

I put the penny or small washer on top of the existing shell holder so the case just sits on top. Right where the red arrow is in the picture.
when case goes up it will crimp just fine, push it out from the top with your finger.
Not home for a few weeks or I could post a few pictures

 

[NaviDave]

Redding FTX crimp die, Hornady dies with 325gr ftx bullet seater.