Oversized cast bullets-need advice

blacksmithden

blacksmithden

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So, today I decided to get into casting my own bullets. Bought the melter, a die, and a roll of solder (95% tin). Melted down a few old dive weights, mixed in some of the tin solder, and had a merry old time. I made up a couple of hundred rounds. I measured them, and they came out at .312".......the box for the mold said .309 ......ok.....now what.....well, lets just see how these load into a Win 30-30 case.....nope....it's shearing off a small amount of lead from the lands....of course, on one side, not evenly all the way around and the bullet doesn't sit straight in the case. I should note one other thing. I'm not looking for deadly accuracy from these things....just something cheap to play around with at the range.

Questions.....would chamfering the cases help? Would these even be ok to put through my 30-30 since they're .004" overside? Should I just go and look for another mold, and throw the whole batch back in the melter???????
Any voice of experience would be appreciated. Thanks....
 
Your doing frine man. Your just missing a couple minor ingredients. And with em that thuddy will liight up like never before...

1) a copper gun is not a cast gun, and visa versa. You gotta cleanse every morsal of copper out that barrel

2) pure lead and tin do not make anything you can drive past pistol velocities. Sub out those dive weights for wheel weights so as to get some antimony in there. And drop em in water out of the mold then let em cure for a week. Not doing these things is garaunteed for leading and poor accuracy, and SLOOOOW speed....Trust me

3)Got a lee sizer kit. their like 12 bucks. get it either .309 or .310. You want cast to be .001-.002 big for bore. Your .312 needs a sizing

4)Get a custom expander plug made by a friend with lath capabilities, or theres places that sell em on line. Get it exactly the same as you sized the bullets to. Cast bullets should not be much more of a press fit than you could do with your thumb


Just curious what mold it is?
 
You def. need to size them, either the Lee kit or a Lyman lube/sizer,which as the name suggests; sizes and lubes in one operation and you can try diff. lubes. I size my .308 bullets to .310". You may want to buy the Lee "universal expanding die", it is used to bell the case mouth on any case/any cal., which will allow you to seat cast bullets without shaving lead. Try a harder lead and if the bullet is cut for a gas check, use one. Good luck, sometimes getting it right with cast bullets takes a fair bit of experimenting, and thats half the fun of it.
 
Put those bullets aside for when you or someone else wants bullets for his 303 brit.

Lead and tim is the maim ingredient, but antimony is required so the two metals will mix properly.

If you use whell weights, make sure to stir and lux to get the grit out.
 
You've been given some sound advice above, the Lee universal expanding die is a must for easilly loading cast bullets in bottle necked cartridges. You are probably going to find the powders you previously used for jacketed loads not all that great. I have had excellent results in 30-30 with IMR SR 4759 and Alliant Reloader 7. I keep my velocities under 1600 fps with non gas checked hardcast bullets and LBT lube.
 
Weebull....lead and tin are the best materials for making expanding lead bullets, tin toughens the mix and helps the way the lead flows when you pour it. Unfortunately tin is expensive and there are other ways of making harder bullets for higher vel....one is using wheel weights as they have antimony in them which makes heat treating effective. You can use those bullets you made, just size them and maybe keep them to 1500fps or so, or mix them with some wheel weight material or better still "LINOTYPE" ,if you can get it.
 
ben hunchak said:
Weebull....lead and tin are the best materials for making expanding lead bullets, tin toughens the mix and helps the way the lead flows when you pour it. Unfortunately tin is expensive and there are other ways of making harder bullets for higher vel....one is using wheel weights as they have antimony in them which makes heat treating effective. You can use those bullets you made, just size them and maybe keep them to 1500fps or so, or mix them with some wheel weight material or better still "LINOTYPE" ,if you can get it.
Click to expand...

tin as mis thought for years does precious little other than flow qualities

Secondly. The rest of this paragraph is a carbon copy of what I said
 
Sorry WeeBull, didn't know you were a Moderator........I have been casting and using tin for 40 years to increase maleability to cast bullets, as well as harden them, we (M.T. Chambers Supply) have tested cast bullets of all types for penetration and their ability to hold together at higher speeds. Harder mixes using heattreating and some of the typeset metals tend to fracture at high speeds when they encounter bone. Mixes using tin tend to hold together better within a wider range of velocities.
 
Good comments in the above. Get hold of a copy of Lymans Cast Bullet Handbook. A lot of your questions will be answered there. You might also want to join this forum:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php

Guys there are great and they are all willing to help up a new caster. Welcome to casting the silver stream.

With gas checks I have run wheelweight alloy boolits to 200 fps with no leading. Slug the bore of your rifle to see what the bore diameter is. You want your lead boolits to be at least one thou larger and IMHO two thou is even better. Seat your boolits so they just reach the rifling. Apply just enough crimp to remove the belling and you should be good to go.

Take Care

Bob
 
Another good summary of bullet casting can be found in the second edition of Lee's Modern Reloading Guide which has about 15-20 pages of info. It speaks to the different materials needed to make a good bullet alloy, and a couple of other issues that you've raised, such as the seating of lead bullets.

If you check the surplusrifle.com site under their reloading section, they have two or three articles on how to get started with cast bullets, as well as an article about making #2 Alloy out of a combination of wheel weights and lead/tin solder.

If you read through those sources, that will answer several of your questions......for anything else that remains you've got this site, the cast-boolits forum and the bullet casting forum at the surplusrifle.com site.

Good Luck,

Frank
 
Charger 1 you dog. Nice to make the connection. To the original poster, check out Felix Lube while you are there. I now make my own lube using his formula. Eliminated leading completely. Excellent articles there on lube, leading etc.

Take Care

Bob aka robertbank on most forums
 
weebull said:
1) a copper gun is not a cast gun, and visa versa. You gotta cleanse every morsal of copper out that barrel
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I agree with this statement, I have a Win 94BB in 375 Win that I just started to shoot 250 gr gas checked cast bullets in last year and I can group them inside 4" at 100 yards with iron sights and 45 year old eyes, that's pretty good in my opinion. This rifle has been used a fair bit in the past with jacketed bullets and I regularly alternate jacketed and cast bullets in range shooting sessions with no apparent loss in accuracy.
 
Silverback said:
I'm not sure I agree with this statement, I have a Win 94BB in 375 Win that I just started to shoot 250 gr gas checked cast bullets in last year and I can group them inside 4" at 100 yards with iron sights and 45 year old eyes, that's pretty good in my opinion. This rifle has been used a fair bit in the past with jacketed bullets and I regularly alternate jacketed and cast bullets in range shooting sessions with no apparent loss in accuracy.
Click to expand...

I cant argue that logic. If your happy with your accuracy, good for you. I was stating facts based on those who might want to realize all the accuracy a gun is capable of....Typically what a caster would expect from peeps and 48 yr old eyes
HPIM0783.jpg
 
blacksmithden said:
So, today I decided to get into casting my own bullets. Bought the melter, a die, and a roll of solder (95% tin). Melted down a few old dive weights, mixed in some of the tin solder, and had a merry old time. I made up a couple of hundred rounds. I measured them, and they came out at .312".......the box for the mold said .309 ......ok.....now what.....well, lets just see how these load into a Win 30-30 case.....nope....it's shearing off a small amount of lead from the lands....of course, on one side, not evenly all the way around and the bullet doesn't sit straight in the case. I should note one other thing. I'm not looking for deadly accuracy from these things....just something cheap to play around with at the range.

Questions.....would chamfering the cases help? Would these even be ok to put through my 30-30 since they're .004" overside? Should I just go and look for another mold, and throw the whole batch back in the melter???????
Any voice of experience would be appreciated. Thanks....
Click to expand...

blacksmithden what you need, if you don't already have one is a Lee .311" sizing die and some 30 calibre gas checks. I shoot .311" bullets all the time with my 30-06 and a couple thousand over on size with cast is just perfect. Next you need a case mouth expanding die. I made mine but they are cheap to buy from Lee. These dies flare the mouth of the case just a little bit and prevent the lead shaving you are discribing. After you flare the case mouth and seat the bullet you can roll crimp the flare back with your bullet seating die. Now velocities! Yes it is true that most cast bullets are more accurate at 2000 fps and below, however, just for s**ts and giggles I ripped 160gr. lynotype cast bullet downrange at speeds of 2600 fps in my 303 British Ross M-10. Haven't tried those velocities in my '06 yet but I can imagine that a 3000 fps cast bullet would be an awsome sight:D. Now I'll admit that these were not my most accurate loads, but they didn't tumble and produced about a 3" group at 100 yards. I would like to add that these velocites were obtained from the mighty Ross action, and that cast bullets due to their soft nature compaired to FMJ or JSP, produce lower pressures. If you are attempting 3000 fps with an '06 it better not be your dead uncle's Garand! Always use caution when loading and work up.
 
weebull said:
I cant argue that logic. If your happy with your accuracy, good for you. I was stating facts based on those who might want to realize all the accuracy a gun is capable of....Typically what a caster would expect from peeps and 48 yr old eyes
Click to expand...

I think that the accuracy potential of my Model 94 Win is pretty much maxed out at with the Williams peep and fire dot front sight on it. We have a 15" steel gong at about 110 yards and I can hit it very regularly off hand with that setup. I bet you didn't shoot that group with a Win 94 with hunting style sights. Awesome group none the less, what you shooting?
 
Well since we are into what we can shoot with cast my Husquavarna 30-06 will shoot ,1/2" at 100 yds all day long using Lyman 311291 GC cast boolits using WW. Load is 20 gr 2400. Scoped off a bench of course. Sized .309.

Take Care

Bob
 
weebull said:
I cant argue that logic. If your happy with your accuracy, good for you. I was stating facts based on those who might want to realize all the accuracy a gun is capable of....Typically what a caster would expect from peeps and 48 yr old eyes
HPIM0783.jpg
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting the pic, you know me over there as... John Y Cannuck, surprise!
Many folks assume that you have to settle for sub par accuracy with cast, and it just isn't so.
True, you can't achieve stellar velocity, but if you want to get into paper patching lead bullets, you're in for a big surprise how fast you can go.
 
This is some great info!
Johnny Y I was suprised to get a .420" 4 shot group at 50yds with the 1871 Swiss Vetterli I just bought. 1 1/2" to 1 5/8" at 100 yds too. I do believe it will go after whitetails at the homestead this fall.

I am too green yet to offer anything worth while on this topic aside from a .002" interference fit of the boolit to the bore seems to work well so far.

It sure is a treat to have such low recoil with a 310gr slug! I'll never regret this purchase!

For the seating of oversized bullets, I did not see if the case mouth had been belled to accept the boolit. Perhaps that would help?
 
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