Just asked him and he says he was standing beside a guy buying a semi-auto 12ga with removeable chokes. He didn't catch the make or model though but says it was a trap/sporting clay gun, maybe a Beretta or Benelli.
For Immediate Release! CSAAA- Shotgun ban!!
- Thread starter Wolverine .303
- Start date
Just asked him and he says he was standing beside a guy buying a semi-auto 12ga with removeable chokes. He didn't catch the make or model though but says it was a trap/sporting clay gun, maybe a Beretta or Benelli.
jimythetulip
Member
They are all still available at Cabelas online too.
J_K_S
Regular
- Location
- Surrounded by Socialists.
Lol. I didn’t know AR-15s had to earn respect from the duck hunting crowd. Take your DU crap and take a long walk.
rajczak_kashka
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Surrey, B.C.
An excellent find...read the whole study....wish others would too. Thank you for this
CosmiC10R
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Living the Dream in Rural Alberta
I wonder if Cabelas or Cdn Tire is a part of CSAAA... could be just usual Big box store information dissemination or they may not agree in Ed's interpretation... hard to know...
Big Brother
Member
- Location
- Ontario
Sure sucked in the sporting crowd who though they wouldn't be affected, didn't they?
Whats that saying about "first they took... now one left to...." ???
Whats that saying about "first they took... now one left to...." ???
- Location
- Nova Scotia
In his tweet, I responded with this. I had to change it on the fly due to character counts, but the messaging is the same. You need to settle down, because anyone foolish on relying on his words better have him on speed dial for their trial.
Sir, Given that you were a Police Officer, I would like to tap into your experiences. Maybe you were a PS or a D/Const or Det in the D office/drug squad/G&G equivalent back in the day. Remember the Ways and Means Act? Remember when you didn’t have enough facts in issue to actually prove something in court, but figure I will lay the charge and let the judge decide? Ya, the charges that ended up creating so much case law in the country – not necessarily by you of course, but you know what I mean. The charges that ended up withdrawing from the credibility bank account instead of depositing into it? So now that you remember that, lemme tell you something about the truth that matters. You see, the legislation doesn’t specify what part of the bore needs to exceed the 20mm amount. Nor does it specify what length of the bore can’t exceed 20mm. So when one removes the choke of the shotgun, or if the bore is overbored by a gunsmith or just crappy manufacturing tolerances, all of a sudden things get real for the owner/possessor of that shotgun. You see, we both know the likes of units that enforce gun laws against gangs, and others that enforce weapons provincially and nationally. I am not sure about you, but I can clearly see them using this exact circumstance to add another charge to the charge sheet, you know, to see if it sticks when they throw it against the wall. Heck maybe it’s the ONLY charge they put on the information. They would usually reserve this for the known criminal element…until… it makes its way through the various enforcement units, guys get transferred back to the road, and that knowledge gets disseminated to the front line. Doesn’t take long at all. Heck I would even suggest, before there is even case law on it! See I have been before the courts and given opinion evidence on determining a firearm’s status more than once. At one time it was part of my job. I can see this very easily happening. Now, let’s hypothetically say a government that enacts legislation is replaced. Maybe key players on the “intent” of the legislation/Order in council that was passed can’t speak to the original intent because they moved on. Well then that’s up to the court to decide. Then it’s a roll of the dice. Maybe a case of unintended consequences? Or maybe flat out that’s what was intended in the first place? Who knows. So yes Sir, the truth does matter.
krazykaiser
Member
- Location
- alberta
Friend of mine suggested today that we should all join the liberal party and change it from the inside, I told him lol I would rather be called a nazi
- Location
- B.C.
A 12 gauge shotgun is named as such because of the bore diameter of the inside of the barrel. You know. stick the biggest lead ball you can fit all the way down the barrel and 12 of those balls should weigh one pound. A 12 ga shotgun is still a 12 ga shotgun even if you remove the choke tube otherwise you have just manufactured a 8.5 ga shotgun. Not likely. I would also think SAAMI specs are clear enough and universally accepted so that it can be used in court since all of our modern quality shotguns are manufactured to SAAMI specs.
The bad news is we now have a bunch of banned muzzle loaders. Seriously ?
The bad news is we now have a bunch of banned muzzle loaders. Seriously ?
You are correct but the laws are not enforced by SAAMI, nor are you judged by SAAMI. The only things that matter are how the RCMP measure the bore and how the judge interprets both the law and how the RCMP measure the bore. You may call SAAMI as part of your defence but it is a standards organization not a legal one and American to boot. Since our Canadian industry body has stated that there may be an issue with this OIC you may want to heed their warning. If you don't want to heed the warning then don't. It is up to you how you proceed.
Please note, I am not a lawyer, I don't play one on TV, I didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night so do not take this as legal advice.
Peter
Youzawhale
CGN frequent flyer
Well speaking of legal advice, Solomon Friedman is confirming Ed Burlew's reading of the law and that 12ga and 10ga shotguns with chokes are now prohib.
These are argueably the two most experienced firearms lawyers in the country.
Youza.
These are argueably the two most experienced firearms lawyers in the country.
Youza.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
amen,
@MustangFrank
I have been in court more than once in my last job. In that job, one of my functions was performing firearms analysis to determine if the firearm in question met the sec 2 definition in the criminal code. I also provided testimony as a Verifier and user of the FRT to provide the classification of said firearm as being prohibited/restricted or Non-restricted. NOT ONCE has SAAMI come up in court. it DOESN"T MATTER what SAAMI says a 12/10 ga shotgun's bore diameter is.....it was is ACTUALLY measured by the analyst who performs the examination. Since there is no definition of what/where and how much is to be measured IN THE BORE in any Canadian legislation, it'll be open to interpretation.
Boltgun
- Location
- B.C.
I appreciate your advice. I would trust your opinion over any of the supposed expert lawyers who no doubt smell a big payday. They are only right 50% of the time. The methodology for determining the bore of a shotgun has been around for as long as shotguns have been made. So a couple hundred years ? They have been measured the same way for all that time. I don't think just because you now have removable chokes, it will make a difference. If you remove the choke and a 10 gauge shell fits in the end of the barrel, you have not created a 10 gauge shotgun. Give the lab some credit to come up with a reasonable system of measurement. Manufacturers are able to stamp 12 gauge on a barrel in any corner of the world because it meets certain bore size specifications. Its not an arbitrary measurement for anyone to interpret with a set of callipers. Just my take on it. The science has not been settled on this one.
shawn
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Kamloops, BC
They didnt suck in anyone
Look at all the thread on here with all the deniers bleating but but but twitter
Shawn
Might have at least got their attention. Baby steps.
JohnMc
Regular
But we are trusting that the same "reasonable people" that decided that a standard .22LR rifle screwed into a couple of pieces of plastic are a AK47 variant are not going to "incorrectly" measure your shotgun barrel.
So if the first person who gets charged for duck hunting with his prohibited 12ga wants to hire either of those two highly experienced firearms lawyers, they’ll be told to kick dirt??
