Grey area firearms, and the law

J

JIP911

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So I have a few leo buddies and asked them how they would treat a guy out shooting one of these NR firearms that escaped the list. You know the ones I'm talking about and 2 of 3 said they would believe them to be a variant and follow the OIC. Things got pretty heated in our conversation but they held their ground and said same BCG, mag, barrel, stock, trigger etc etc hard to argue they are not from the same family and they would let the courts sort it out...
Is anyone willing to fess up to asking for an official response from the RCMP/local Leo or is everyone fearful that they don't want to draw attention to these even though the RCMP clearly know they exist?

J
 
The RCMP firearms reference table will list these rifles with specific FRT numbers that say they are non-res. All the ones on the ban list are likely now changed to prohib. You need only to point the officer to the FRT.
 
The problem is where he says the officers would still charge you and let the courts sort it out. That probably means confiscated guns, heaps of legal fees, and possibly even bringing enough attention that they decide to add it to the list.

Legally speaking you would be in the right, but more and more I’m getting the feeling that sort of thing doesn’t really matter to them any more. They’ll just create or reinterpret laws any way they want.
 
I did reference the frt and both of them said the updates are not completed and many more updates are still expected. The more I pushed the issue the more stead fast they got at letting the experts sort it out... In the court room.

Hardly makes me feel comfortable talking one of these out to shoot until something formal is posted specifically stating an exemption. These guys are pretty sensible and to hear their responses absolutely shocked me...
 
Fuzzy Wool Hat said:
The problem is where he says the officers would still charge you and let the courts sort it out. That probably means confiscated guns, heaps of legal fees, and possibly even bringing enough attention that they decide to add it to the list.

Legally speaking you would be in the right, but more and more I’m getting the feeling that sort of thing doesn’t really matter to them any more. They’ll just create or reinterpret laws any way they want.
Click to expand...

That's what a civil suit for wrongful arrest is for.

JIP911 said:
I did reference the frt and both of them said the updates are not completed and many more updates are still expected. The more I pushed the issue the more stead fast they got at letting the experts sort it out... In the court room.

Hardly makes me feel comfortable talking one of these out to shoot until something formal is posted specifically stating an exemption. These guys are pretty sensible and to hear their responses absolutely shocked me...
Click to expand...

I would be happy to see my day in court over it. Time and thousands in fees would be worth getting to verbally b*tch slap those involved.
 
OP, why do you call firearms NOT on the list grey area firearms??? They are either on the list and prohibited or not on the list.
 
The list states variants not specifically listed, they are arguing that they would be just in calling it a variant based on the sheer number of interchangeable parts.

Seems pretty grey to me as I would never have thought something as serious as being charged with a prohibited weapon would be so open to interpretation as this OIC is in so many regards. Loose wording, the shotgun issue, bolt action guns not exceeding 10000 etc.

I don't have the time, $$$ or will to take on the government to prove a point that will be judged by someone who very well could be as ignorant as Bill Blair when it comes to firearms.

J
 
This is just your leo buddies dont know what it is they are suppose to be doing. Not that these NR rifles (I think you are taking about AT) are in any way a variant of an AR-15 rifle. A variant of a firearm, is a firearm that is based on the common receiver type. IE. AK receiver is a very good example of this.
 
JIP911 said:
I did reference the frt and both of them said the updates are not completed and many more updates are still expected. The more I pushed the issue the more stead fast they got at letting the experts sort it out... In the court room.

Hardly makes me feel comfortable talking one of these out to shoot until something formal is posted specifically stating an exemption. These guys are pretty sensible and to hear their responses absolutely shocked me...
Click to expand...

Find a new shooting spot, get some lands if you can, stay away from ignorant cops.
 
btabin said:
That's what a civil suit for wrongful arrest is for.



I would be happy to see my day in court over it. Time and thousands in fees would be worth getting to verbally b*tch slap those involved.
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Awfully hard to win those as the bar is set very high and against the applicant. Not to mention, most don’t have the financial means to defend themselves from criminal charges and then incur the large costs for a civil suit.


Rigged system really.
 
angryeyebrows said:
The RCMP firearms reference table will list these rifles with specific FRT numbers that say they are non-res. All the ones on the ban list are likely now changed to prohib. You need only to point the officer to the FRT.
Click to expand...

You are assuming they know what this is... Most don’t even know it exist, some know about it but don’t knoe how it works and you got the odd one that knows how to use it, most often because he’s a gun guy.


Print the 63 pages of junk this OIC is and carry it in your bag when you go shooting your still NR black, fde, odg rifles
 
JIP911 said:
The list states variants not specifically listed, they are arguing that they would be just in calling it a variant based on the sheer number of interchangeable parts.

Seems pretty grey to me as I would never have thought something as serious as being charged with a prohibited weapon would be so open to interpretation as this OIC is in so many regards. Loose wording, the shotgun issue, bolt action guns not exceeding 10000 etc.

I don't have the time, $$$ or will to take on the government to prove a point that will be judged by someone who very well could be as ignorant as Bill Blair when it comes to firearms.

J
Click to expand...


Very good point....
 
JIP911 said:
So I have a few leo buddies and asked them how they would treat a guy out shooting one of these NR firearms that escaped the list. You know the ones I'm talking about and 2 of 3 said they would believe them to be a variant and follow the OIC. Things got pretty heated in our conversation but they held their ground and said same BCG, mag, barrel, stock, trigger etc etc hard to argue they are not from the same family and they would let the courts sort it out...
Is anyone willing to fess up to asking for an official response from the RCMP/local Leo or is everyone fearful that they don't want to draw attention to these even though the RCMP clearly know they exist?

J
Click to expand...

Your friends need to be removed from policing if they don't understand the FRT . Also remind them of the SIU and the consequences of arresting someone based on an officers ignorance of the law. Ask them how they will pay for a lawsuit when sued in civil court.


Ignornace is not an excuse for breaking the law. Ignorance is also not an excuse for a police officer misinterpreting the law. Your friends need to have their asses kicked in court for being so ignorant to the law.
 
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It breaks my heart, but I'm not taking my stag hunting this year, even though it would be legal to do so. I sold other guns to buy the stag as a do-it-all hunting rifle and now I'm afraid to be caught using it to fill my freezer.
I wont be using my shotguns with threaded choke either. Call me names, but I'm young and have a baby coming. I'm not spending my first born's childhood fighting gun charges. I'm fortunate enough to have hunting rifles from my father and maternal grandfather. I bought the Stag to preserve those guns.
 
btabin said:
That's what a civil suit for wrongful arrest is for.

I would be happy to see my day in court over it. Time and thousands in fees would be worth getting to verbally b*tch slap those involved.
Click to expand...

AFisher said:
Your friends need to be removed from policing if they don't understand the FRT . Also remind them of the SIU and the consequences of arresting someone based on an officers ignorance of the law. Ask them how they will pay for a lawsuit when sued in civil court.

Ignornace is not an excuse for breaking the law. Ignorance is also not an excuse for a police officer misinterpreting the law. Your friends need to have their asses kicked in court for being so ignorant to the law.
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Exactly, take every piece of food from their families table for their incompetence to do their job. LEO is in a position of power and have a responsibility to get it right, the position of charge everyone and let the courts sort it out deserves these ass wipes to be bankrupted as they are ruining lives with their disgusting dismissive attitudes and punishment by process deserves accountability. I would make it my mission to ruin their lives too.
 
JIP911 said:
So I have a few leo buddies and asked them how they would treat a guy out shooting one of these NR firearms that escaped the list. You know the ones I'm talking about and 2 of 3 said they would believe them to be a variant and follow the OIC. Things got pretty heated in our conversation but they held their ground and said same BCG, mag, barrel, stock, trigger etc etc hard to argue they are not from the same family and they would let the courts sort it out...
Is anyone willing to fess up to asking for an official response from the RCMP/local Leo or is everyone fearful that they don't want to draw attention to these even though the RCMP clearly know they exist?

J
Click to expand...

Sounds like your "buddies" are butt-hurt about their personal arms being prohib'd , and want to take it out on others who are NOT on the list.....

Classic cops.

"Where are you headed"
I don't answer questions.

"Why won't you speak to me, Im your "friend", just let me know and you'll be on your way"
I don't answer questions.

What crime am I being suspected of, and am I free to go peacefully? (hint, they literally have to say something FAST, or else their whole power games BS dies out quick.)
 
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