Does the Firearms ban apply to antique status firearms over 20mm??

[SteelFlint]

It’s already happening. Read CSAAA release on Iver Johnson single shots. Not antique status sure, but they’ll work down the list slowly.

 

[guess_kto]

My current take is that they are prohibited It also sucks because I wanted to by black powder cannon that shoots golf balls

 

[Big-boss-man]

it boils down to 1 or 2 things:

is it a firearm:

“Firearm” means a barrelled weapon from which any shot, bullet or other projectile can be discharged and that is capable of causing serious bodily injury or death to a person, and includes any frame or receiver of such a barrelled weapon and anything that can be adapted for use as a firearm;

[R.S.C., 1985, c. C-46 section 2]

Certain weapons deemed not to be firearms

(3) For the purposes of sections 91 to 95, 99 to 101, 103 to 107 and 117.03 of this Act and the provisions of the Firearms Act, the following weapons are deemed not to be firearms:
(a) any antique firearm;
(b) any device that is
(i) designed exclusively for signalling, for notifying of distress, for firing blank cartridges or for firing stud cartridges, explosive-driven rivets or other industrial projectiles, and
(ii) intended by the person in possession of it to be used exclusively for the purpose for which it is designed;
(c) any shooting device that is
(i) designed exclusively for the slaughtering of domestic animals, the tranquillizing of animals or the discharging of projectiles with lines attached to them, and
(ii) intended by the person in possession of it to be used exclusively for the purpose for which it is designed; and
(d) any other barrelled weapon, where it is proved that the weapon is not designed or adapted to discharge
(i) a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or at a muzzle energy exceeding 5.7 Joules, or
(ii) a shot, bullet or other projectile that is designed or adapted to attain a velocity exceeding 152.4 m per second or an energy exceeding 5.7 Joules.

Marginal note:Exception — antique firearms

(3.1) Notwithstanding subsection (3), an antique firearm is a firearm for the purposes of regulations made under paragraph 117(h) of the Firearms Act and subsection 86(2) of this Act.

[criminal code of canada section 84]

antique firearm means

(a) any firearm manufactured before 1898 that was not designed to discharge rim-fire or centre-fire ammunition and that has not been redesigned to discharge such ammunition, or
(b) any firearm that is prescribed to be an antique firearm;

but wait there's more...

117 The Governor in Council may make regulations
(h) regulating the storage, handling, transportation, shipping, display, advertising and mail-order sale of firearms and restricted weapons and defining the expression “mail-order sale” for the purposes of this Act;

[firearms act section 117(h)]

Careless use of firearm, etc.

86 (1) Every person commits an offence who, without lawful excuse, uses, carries, handles, ships, transports or stores a firearm, a prohibited weapon, a restricted weapon, a prohibited device or any ammunition or prohibited ammunition in a careless manner or without reasonable precautions for the safety of other persons.
Marginal note:Contravention of storage regulations, etc.
(2) Every person commits an offence who contravenes a regulation made under paragraph 117(h) of the Firearms Act respecting the storage, handling, transportation, shipping, display, advertising and mail-order sales of firearms and restricted weapons

[criminal code of canada section 86(2)]PHEW!!! It is not a firearm?? Then maybe the next part doesn't apply since it refers to only firearms???

95 Any firearm with a bore diameter of 20 mm or greater — other than one designed exclusively for the purpose of neutralizing explosive devices — including the

[SOR/2020-96 May 1, 2020 Section (or amendment??) 95

very confusing but who knows for sure.

 

[Philthy1]

The "firearm" element seems to be the key element here and I'd be leaning towards them not being banned. Unfortunately the CCFR has adopted the strategy of pushing as many items as possible into the mire in order to gain support. A very questionable strategy.

 

[Cameron SS]

An empty, disposable fiberglass and aluminium M72 launcher was not a firearm last month (or I don't think) and is a prohibited device today. How does that work with your explanation?

To be honest I don't know, simply because I don't think these new laws work at all.

Its probably debatable whether an M72 met the definition of firearm law month. At the end of the day, what the law says and how police act upon are always two separate things, and the fact that the police never charged anyone for possession of a spent M72 tube, is not proof that an M72 is not a firearm.

The law is 100 kinds of stupid, created by stupid people, for a stupid purpose. Don't expect it to make sense.

At the end of the day, if it isn't a firearm, then it can't be a prohibited firearm.

 

[Beater]

but it can be a " prohibited device"

 

[Big-boss-man]

Actually it is. Your whole dissertation ignores the actual words of the OIC..."creates two new categories of firearms"...my fuse fired cannons weren't even firearms last Thursday evening but come Friday morning all of a sudden they are "banned firearms" of the new classification.

no your fuse fire canon was a firearm because "Firearm” means a barrelled weapon from which any shot, bullet or other projectile can be discharged and that is capable of causing serious bodily injury or death to a person, and includes any frame or receiver of such a barrelled weapon and anything that can be adapted for use as a firearm;

but antiques are still a " device"

I still think we will be in trouble, maybe not now, but down the road with the way things are worded

no because firearms are firearms, antique firearms are antique firearms, and devices are devices (I.E. a device intended to lessen the report of a firearms [silencer])

I think there is going to have to be some sort of qualification to the prohibition besides bore diameter. Otherwise, it will include paintball guns, flare guns and line throwing guns besides others that I mentioned earlier.

cheers mooncoon

no paintball guns -if i'm not mistaken- miss the muzzle energy to be firearms, flares a named exemptions to the definition of firearms, and line throwing guns are only firearms if they are not being used for their intended purpose.

An empty, disposable fiberglass and aluminium M72 launcher was not a firearm last month (or I don't think) and is a prohibited device today. How does that work with your explanation?

"Firearm” means a barrelled weapon from which any shot, bullet or other projectile can be discharged and that is capable of causing serious bodily injury or death to a person, and includes any frame or receiver of such a barrelled weapon and anything that can be adapted for use as a firearm; therefore if your m72 launcher was capable to discharge a "projectile" that can cause bodily injury it has always been a firearm, if not, it still isn't and is therefore not prohibited unless specifically named.(which would suggest it is actually capable blah blah blah)

 

[mooncoon]

no because firearms are firearms, antique firearms are antique firearms, and devices are devices (I.E. a device intended to lessen the report of a firearms [silencer])

no paintball guns -if i'm not mistaken- miss the muzzle energy to be firearms, flares a named exemptions to the definition of firearms, and line throwing guns are only firearms if they are not being used for their intended purpose.

antique guns and probably the other apparent exceptions become firearms if they are used as a firearm. So an antique is not a firearm for the purpose of licensing or registration but it is a firearm if used in a crime as in robbing a store. As applies to low power paint ball guns, I believe the prohibition on bore diameter said "and or" meaning that both categories are prohibited if they meet either description

cheers mooncoon

 

[DEZ]

Well as I've said before I spent along time on the PH. with firearms Techs at CFC . Twice now and they have stated to me both times that Antiques will not be effected by the bore size because they are deemed non firearms unless used in commission of a crime . The M72 rocket launcher was prohibited because of what it is not because its over 20mm. spent empty tube or not

 

[Beater]

Well as I've said before I spent along time on the PH. with firearms Techs at CFC . Twice now and they have stated to me both times that Antiques will not be effected by the bore size because they are deemed non firearms unless used in commission of a crime . The M72 rocket launcher was prohibited because of what it is not because its over 20mm. spent empty tube or not

10 and 12 ga shotguns wont be affected ether

 

[Cameron SS]

antique guns and probably the other apparent exceptions become firearms if they are used as a firearm. So an antique is not a firearm for the purpose of licensing or registration but it is a firearm if used in a crime as in robbing a store. As applies to low power paint ball guns, I believe the prohibition on bore diameter said "and or" meaning that both categories are prohibited if they meet either description

cheers mooncoon

This is a mischaractization of the law. There is no such thing as becomes a firearm if.

Either it meets the definition of firearm, or it doesnt.
If a firearm, it either meets the definition of antique or it doesn't.
If its an antique firearm it is exempt from some sectuons of the criminal code, but not all.

To the extend that the new regulations do not in anyway mention antiques, none of the above is affected.

To the extend that the regulations have consequences for all firearms which antiques are not exempt from, the regulations may affect certain antiques.

 

[mooncoon]

This is a mischaractization of the law. There is no such thing as becomes a firearm if.

Either it meets the definition of firearm, or it doesnt.
If a firearm, it either meets the definition of antique or it doesn't.
If its an antique firearm it is exempt from some sectuons of the criminal code, but not all.

.

Let me rephrase it then ; guns such as modern flintocks and pre 1898 muzzle loaders meet the definition of firearms however they are exempt from registration and possession licensing. Flare guns meet the definition of firearms but they are exempt also. Candy cannons and signal cannons also probably meet the definition of firearms but most or perhaps all are exempt from registration and possession licenses

For the time being the law appears to say that those which are over 20 mm bore are prohibited. For the time being there is no exception from prohibition for antiques, emergency devices and so forth

cheers mooncoon

 

[DEZ]

Spoke to my MP he said it’s all up in the air for now the liberals don’t even know what they have done so don’t go making videos of you shooting your cannon until the dust settles and the lawyers get there say the Conservatives have there lawyers looking at it and this will take weeks if not months to clarify the Liberals made a mess and it’s going to take a long time to sort out so don’t make yourself a test case unless you got backing of one of the big organizations Lol think positive and don’t give up

 

[bobdbldr]

Yep, antiques are not firearms and thereby do not fall under the OIC, you are trying to make it more difficult than it is, for what reason, I don't know!

 

[Beater]

Yep, antiques are not firearms and thereby do not fall under the OIC, you are trying to make it more difficult than it is, for what reason, I don't know!

perhaps to not have an over zellious officer of the law from confiscateing my non firearm firearm ?

 

[DEZ]

Yep, antiques are not firearms and thereby do not fall under the OIC, you are trying to make it more difficult than it is, for what reason, I don't know!

Agreed I have been told by the Techs that this OIC will not effect Antiques But some are trying to get everyone fired up and I get that we all must stand together with those in the firearms community that have had some very expensive pieces prohibited Some of us were around in 1995 when Kim Cambell and Allen Rock had there way with OIC and lost some pieces back then we now have a way to communicate and coordinate that we never had back then so hopefully this time things will be different

 

[wbaad]

An antique is not a firearm so I would say no... but I’m using logic

 

[mooncoon]

An antique is not a firearm so I would say no... but I’m using logic

An antique gun meets the criteria for a firearm but also meets the criteria which exempts it from registration in the case of restricted and prohibited firearms and exempts its possessor from the need for a PAL or RPAL

cheers mooncoon

 

[CV32]

So, Stanley Park's 9 o'clock gun has come up ...

 

[Jaaska]

So, Stanley Park's 9 o'clock gun has come up ...

Yep , Blair said it is prohibited .