Trudeau and Blair BAN 12 Gauge and 10 Gauge SHOTGUNS!

SCDL said:
The 12GFH is 1.6 times the 10k joule limit. You have plenty of room to reduce the powder load while still be exceeding the new legal limit.
Click to expand...

It still has to be capable of safely firing it. So can it? Can Jim’s duck gun shoot it with zero modifications and go over 10k joules?
 
Paul_1982 said:
Sure, let’s see someone buy a 3.5” Remington 870 off the rack and fire that round.
Click to expand...

Dood.... we don't issue challenges like that to Bubba....

Paul_1982 said:
It still has to be capable of safely firing it. So can it? Can Jim’s duck gun shoot it with zero modifications and go over 10k joules?
Click to expand...

Describe the wording of the OIC where it says capable of safely firing it with zero modifications...

Im honestly surprised how many people don't realize how important the wording of the law is....
 
CosmiC10R said:
Dood.... we don't issue challenges like that to Bubba....



Describe the wording of the OIC where it says capable of safely firing it with zero modifications...

Im honestly surprised how many people don't realize how important the wording of the law is....
Click to expand...

If modifications need to be done- then it’s no different than full auto conversions- and R v Hasselwander comes in. You have to have the capability to complete the conversions within a specific period of time.
 
CosmiC10R said:
Dood.... we don't issue challenges like that to Bubba....



Describe the wording of the OIC where it says capable of safely firing it with zero modifications...

Im honestly surprised how many people don't realize how important the wording of the law is....
Click to expand...

Absolutely, its all about wording with law. It can used for or against. Nowhere in the OIC does it state that 12 and 10 guage shotguns are exempt from prohibition , as the law says 20mm bores are prohibited. Too me that says 20mm bores are prohib regardless of whether its a scatter gun or a German 88 , NOT "20mm bores are prohib unless you FEEL like yours is not". It is written like that on purpose so that in a few years when this issue has lost steam on this issue, that is when you will start to hear about junior RCMP officers making arrests trying to build a reputation for their masters.
 
Paul_1982 said:
So what speeds does the round reach being fired that way? Is it 10k joules when there’s a half inch space around the bullet as it rattles down the barrel?
Click to expand...

Who cares what speed it reaches...the law does not care about the speed of the projectile. The firearm discharged a round rated above 10k joules and is illegal according to the letter of the law. Experts in fire arms law have attested, in writing, that shotguns are covered by the ban. You asked for proof that an unmodified 12g could fire 50bmg, and were given such, at this point your in denial.

Move past the denial stage, no guns are safe, many hunting guns have been hit by this ban, any that were missed will be hit in subsequent bans.

Get to the action stage of grief as soon as you can please, we are all in this together.
 
easysauce said:
Who cares what speed it reaches...the law does not care about the speed of the projectile. The firearm discharged a round rated above 10k joules and is illegal according to the letter of the law. Experts in fire arms law have attested, in writing, that shotguns are covered by the ban. You asked for proof that an unmodified 12g could fire 50bmg, and were given such, at this point your in denial.

Move past the denial stage, no guns are safe, many hunting guns have been hit by this ban, any that were missed will be hit in subsequent bans.

Get to the action stage of grief as soon as you can please, we are all in this together.
Click to expand...

I’ll rephrase.

Did ANY 50 BMG round, fired from a 12 GA shotgun, reach over 10k joules?

You have to be able to prove your case in order to push this. I’ve never fired a 50 BMG round from a 12 GA. I don’t know what kind of energy that produces. I don’t know what kind of modifications might be needed to make it reach 10k joules. To push this capability though, you should be able to easily produce evidence. No different than Mr. Epps measuring inside the bore of the Iver Johnson.

Showing videos of a guy shooting a tv proves nothing. Chrony the shots, do the math and prove it’s over 10k joules with no modification- or what modifications are necessary to make it over 10k.
 
Last edited:
Shooting a .50 BMG in a shotgun barrel fire forms the brass so you use that instead of a plastic shot shell. The velocity of the .50 BMG bullet is irrelevant.
 
Paul_1982 said:
Showing videos of a guy shooting a tv proves nothing. Chrony the shots, do the math and prove it’s over 10k joules with no modification- or what modifications are necessary to make it over 10k.
Click to expand...

You need to re read the OIC... anything capable of firing projectiles rated at 10k+ is banned, it need not actually produce said muzzle energy, it only needs to be capable of firing said projectile.
 
You guys need to prove that a round fired from a shotgun has reached over 10k joules. Saying proof of it actually happening is not relevant is actually- very much not relevant.

That’s like saying a firearm is capable of firing full auto- but providing no evidence it’s capable of that.

Can you prove shooting a 50 BMG out of a 12 GA shotgun barrel is capable of producing the same velocities and energy as if it’s shot from a 50 BMG rifle?

You think I’m asking these things because I don’t believe it’s possible, I can’t say that because proof hasn’t been shown. The one super hyper 730 grain round appeared to need modifications. What modifications were made?

He didn’t just buy a bolt action shotgun and fire the round.

As for the other guy shooting propane canisters, that proves it’s possible to fire a 50 BMG round, but does not prove it created 10k joules when fired.

I’m all for promoting this as an oversight by Blair- but you need proof.
 
Paul_1982 said:
You guys need to prove that a round fired from a shotgun has reached over 10k joules. Saying proof of it actually happening is not relevant is actually- very much not relevant.

That’s like saying a firearm is capable of firing full auto- but providing no evidence it’s capable of that.

Can you prove shooting a 50 BMG out of a 12 GA shotgun barrel is capable of producing the same velocities and energy as if it’s shot from a 50 BMG rifle?

You think I’m asking these things because I don’t believe it’s possible, I can’t say that because proof hasn’t been shown. The one super hyper 730 grain round appeared to need modifications. What modifications were made?

He didn’t just buy a bolt action shotgun and fire the round.

As for the other guy shooting propane canisters, that proves it’s possible to fire a 50 BMG round, but does not prove it created 10k joules when fired.

I’m all for promoting this as an oversight by Blair- but you need proof.
Click to expand...

Buddy, you post like a no guns schizo. Plenty of evidence available, reloading isn't some arcane magic, and the original 12gfh at ~11+kj was fired out of an off the shelf savage slug gun. No, not every shotgun is made to withstand the pressures required but some fun lovers showed off their developments being shot out of a ~$100 break action single shot. .50bmg brass has thick walls and adds a lot to the gun it's stuffed in.

Literally first link in my search;
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gunsmithing/12-ga-hell-126971/
 
Last edited:
A_Modest_Proposal said:
Buddy, you post like a no guns schizo. Plenty of evidence available, reloading isn't some arcane magic, and the original 12gfh at ~11+kj was fired out of an off the shelf savage slug gun. No, not every shotgun is made to withstand the pressures required but some fun lovers showed off their developments being shot out of a ~$100 break action single shot. .50bmg brass has thick walls and adds a lot to the gun it's stuffed in.

Literally first link in my search;
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/gunsmithing/12-ga-hell-126971/
Click to expand...

That just links to the same guy that was posted earlier.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197214

He explains that he replaces the barrel with a 1.5 inch diameter heavily barrel and opened the loading port and changed the bolt stop etc. His words.

So it’s not just a Savage 210 bolt and boom goes the wildcat round.

So modifications were required to make it fire that round. If you can prove that someone has a Savage 210 rifle, and all the capabilities to make the same modifications, in a reasonable amount of time- then THAT firearm would meet the definition. But not ALL Savage 210’s.
 
Paul_1982 said:
That just links to the same guy that was posted earlier.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197214

He explains that he replaces the barrel with a 1.5 inch diameter heavily barrel and opened the loading port and changed the bolt stop etc. His words.

So it’s not just a Savage 210 bolt and boom goes the wildcat round.

So modifications were required to make it fire that round. If you can prove that someone has a Savage 210 rifle, and all the capabilities to make the same modifications, in a reasonable amount of time- then THAT firearm would meet the definition. But not ALL Savage 210’s.
Click to expand...

A lot of words to say he made it more comfortable to shoot. If the action will handle it the bolt can be removed and the round inserted just like a breech loader. Earlier post shows a break action with an off the shelf .50bmg round jammed in and taped to spacing being fired out of a break action. All that needs be done is set it up as a sabot. Adding a heavy barrel is not wizardry and common yet it's absence will not prevent firing. Off the shelf guns without the added weight and stiffness will cause likely permanent shoulder injuries but will function. These kinds of rounds are meant to be fired out of guns weighing on average >2x a Savage 210 and include massive brakes to manage the recoil. A stock 210 would likely put the shooter out of commission on the first shot.

"I put mine in a Savage 210 12 ga action with heavy barrel and stock." - from the post

The main point is the action defines the possibilities of the gun, barrels come in all shapes and sizes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom