I just started reloading today, and while trying to seat the bullet into the casing, I drove it in too deep. For reference its a 45-70. the manual say's minimum overall length should be no less than 2.550 inches i seated one at 2.492 and a couple at 2.54. i'm wondering if the ones at 2.54 are okay, but the main issue is the really short one. If I were to shoot the overly short one, what would happen? would I be OK or should i just scrap it?
bullet too deep
- Thread starter MosinFan
- Start date
If you have an inertial bullet puller you can use a softer whack or two to draw the bullet out and then re-seat to the desired depth. Go easy on the blows and after the first one open it up and see if and how much it moved. If it didn't move try again just a little harder and measure. With just a bit of care you can make the shorter rounds the same length as the others and make them useful for sighting in along with the rest.
The slightly shorter won't make much difference at all. But that one that is almost .06 too short will certainly have a higher chamber pressure and shoot a bit faster. So good reason to not waste the bullet by pulling it out a little then re-seat to length.
The slightly shorter won't make much difference at all. But that one that is almost .06 too short will certainly have a higher chamber pressure and shoot a bit faster. So good reason to not waste the bullet by pulling it out a little then re-seat to length.
Since it's close to a minimum load you will be fine. I've done some experimenting with deeper seated rounds in the .45-70 in a Ruger #1 and they definitely pick up some speed (and pressure ) when seated deeply. I wouldn't shoot them if they were within a grain or two of max, but staring loads will be fine.
Chris.
Chris.
Bad practice to recommend shooting ammo that is out of specs. Longer is ok shorter is not. Get a kinetic bullet puller - cheap tool that you will need anyway, and reset to 2.550
You will not get good results with inconsistent ammo. Waste of time and components.
You are starting reloading - so do yourself a favour, be precise and consistent, you will get better result that way and will give you a good base for precision reloading techniques in the futur.
You will not get good results with inconsistent ammo. Waste of time and components.
You are starting reloading - so do yourself a favour, be precise and consistent, you will get better result that way and will give you a good base for precision reloading techniques in the futur.
Hate to disagree with some of this, BUT a bullet seated 0.06" deep to COAL will NOT increase pressure in a 45-70. It will likely decrease pressure. These chambers are not high precision target chambers machined to incredibly tight tolerance. COAL is there so that the 45-70 ammunition will feed from a tubular magazine in a lever action. That is pretty much it. The chamber is 'generous', loose and large, in most any commercial lever rifle. That's right! So it will feed in those big slightly tapered rounds what are covered with pocket fuzz, been dropped in the dirt two or three times already when unloading the rifle, covered in sweat and grease as they are rolled around in your hunting jacket pocket as you play with them while waiting for that elusive elk or big buck.
Don't know where I saw it but there are some great charts of pressure readings done where seating depth was varied within some pretty extreme limits from 0.1" 'deep' (yes, that is correct) to jammed into the lands, by 0.01" increments. The ammunition itself was loaded with identical amounts of powder close to a maximum charge with the same case, bullets, primers, and neck tension. The only pressure increase noted was as the bullet approached the lands and then spiking significantly when jammed.
Another similar test I did personally, showed that the velocity only very slightly increased during my seating depth testing on my custom 6.5CM, my factory 5r .308, and my smith rebarreled SAAMI minimum chamber and 'accurized' REM700 5r .223. as I went from .030" to 0.005" at 0.005" increments off the lands with each rifle. As well, Hornady tenth edition reloading manual states this same information on pages 23 and 24.
This doesn't mean you can't take things to ridiculous extremes to prove a point, but as a general rule of thumb, pressure decreases with increased seating depth, and pressure increases as the seating depth is reduced and the bullet gets closer to the lands.
AND, with a 45-70 lever gun, I can absolutely guarantee that the last thing on the manufacturers mind was benchrest accuracy!
Don't know where I saw it but there are some great charts of pressure readings done where seating depth was varied within some pretty extreme limits from 0.1" 'deep' (yes, that is correct) to jammed into the lands, by 0.01" increments. The ammunition itself was loaded with identical amounts of powder close to a maximum charge with the same case, bullets, primers, and neck tension. The only pressure increase noted was as the bullet approached the lands and then spiking significantly when jammed.
Another similar test I did personally, showed that the velocity only very slightly increased during my seating depth testing on my custom 6.5CM, my factory 5r .308, and my smith rebarreled SAAMI minimum chamber and 'accurized' REM700 5r .223. as I went from .030" to 0.005" at 0.005" increments off the lands with each rifle. As well, Hornady tenth edition reloading manual states this same information on pages 23 and 24.
This doesn't mean you can't take things to ridiculous extremes to prove a point, but as a general rule of thumb, pressure decreases with increased seating depth, and pressure increases as the seating depth is reduced and the bullet gets closer to the lands.
AND, with a 45-70 lever gun, I can absolutely guarantee that the last thing on the manufacturers mind was benchrest accuracy!
not for a 45/70 but i got an increase of speed when the bullet is seat deeper in the case. for me it was a 9.3x62 maybe not an exceed of pressure but 150 to 200 fps more means certainly extra pressure and it was in a 9.3x62 ...
How much deeper? You measured the velocity with which chronograph? How many rounds?
I use BOTH a Magnetospeed and a LabRadar when I am checking velocities. They usually resolve to within 10 or 20fps of each other for muzzle velocity with 5 rounds of each at every test level. Once I start shooting for accuracy I only use the LabRadar to eliminate any possible shift of POI. I load my ammo in groups of 15 of each identical (or as close as I can make them) for testing purposes these days so that I can shoot 5 for velocity and good accuracy, then two groups of 5 on two following trips to the range for POI as environmental conditions usually vary.
Sorry, but I find a difference of 150-200fps from seating depth on the Mauser very difficult to believe. That would require several grains of charge equivalent of change.
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Been shooting 45-70 for longer than some here have walked. I've shot rounds where the bullet has been pushed back in the cartridge by the mag tube on the 1886. Way back in.
They don't feed worth crap, but they go bang just fine, with no issues. If you were talking about a high pressure round, or if you were really walking the high end of the pressure gradient, there could be a pressure issue. But with the old girls, no, it's fine to shoot your round.
They don't feed worth crap, but they go bang just fine, with no issues. If you were talking about a high pressure round, or if you were really walking the high end of the pressure gradient, there could be a pressure issue. But with the old girls, no, it's fine to shoot your round.
The first question that comes to mind is what kind of reloading procedures you are using to end up with three different bullet seating depths.
For most every .45-70 bullet (jacketed or cast), their is either a cannelure (jacketed) or a crimping groove. Without worrying about the length in the manual, the first seating depth is normally to the cannelure or the crimping groove. If you are starting with a new bullet, normally you should only seat one (slowly, checking depth) until you reach the cannelure or the crimping groove. Then crimp the bullet without seating it any deeper. Then check it in your rifle to ensure it chambers easily. If you are using a lever action, this check will also allow you to make sure it feeds properly from the magazine.
Then you can seat the rest of the bullets and crimp them. Once you gain some experience and proficiency you could do the seating and crimping in one step.
Otherwise, hard to imagine how you could end with different seating depths.
The lengths in the manuals are guides, not absolutes.
For most every .45-70 bullet (jacketed or cast), their is either a cannelure (jacketed) or a crimping groove. Without worrying about the length in the manual, the first seating depth is normally to the cannelure or the crimping groove. If you are starting with a new bullet, normally you should only seat one (slowly, checking depth) until you reach the cannelure or the crimping groove. Then crimp the bullet without seating it any deeper. Then check it in your rifle to ensure it chambers easily. If you are using a lever action, this check will also allow you to make sure it feeds properly from the magazine.
Then you can seat the rest of the bullets and crimp them. Once you gain some experience and proficiency you could do the seating and crimping in one step.
Otherwise, hard to imagine how you could end with different seating depths.
The lengths in the manuals are guides, not absolutes.
