Yes!!!!!!! I will be contributing.
Would like to see SLR also do some action.
ATRS Update: May 20th 2020 Re: MS / MH / MV
- Thread starter ATRS Shaun
- Start date
Yes!!!!!!! I will be contributing.
Would like to see SLR also do some action.
Are you considering pulling out of Canada like BCL is?
yes, I have the BC Metis Harvesters card for migratory game birds..... it does not cover any other species. Not to derail the thread, but the harvesters card is a joke. I only have it as a formality but I believe it needs to be abolished and metis in bc should have the same access to the land and waters of Canada as first nations do. The bc metis nation is too busy trying to act like politicians and pander to the government process rather than actively making claim to our "rights" under S35 as other metis nations have done.
The OIC is open to interpretation as well and will a BC CO or rcmp uphold my s35 rights or will they say I am not on my treaty lands so I am a criminal. Treaty 6 lands , where our family line originates, are in alberta but I was born and raised in bc.
My overall point in this thread is that while I don't own any atrs product, and it appears the prime minstrel has exempted me from the ban for 2years (maybe? depending on interpretation), I will be donating funds as my budget permits to fight this OIC for all of us.
- Location
- calgary alberta
No there is no plan except to fight. I don't give up that easily.
In order to determine if it's an overreach we have to examine what the words "modified" and "version" mean. The merriam webster dictionary defines "modified" as follows..
1. to make less extreme : MODERATE
2a. to limit or restrict the meaning of especially in a grammatical construction
b. to change (a vowel) by umlaut
3a. to make minor changes in
b. to make basic or fundamental changes in often to give a new orientation to or to serve a new end
The Merriam Webster dictionary defines "version" as:
1a. an account or description from a particular point of view especially as contrasted with another account
b. an adaptation of a literary work
c. an arrangement of a musical composition
2. a form or variant of a type or original
3. a translation from another language
4a. a condition in which an organ and especially the uterus is turned from its normal position
b. manual turning of a fetus in the uterus to aid delivery
Based on the definitions, I would say the ones that apply here are 3a and b for "modified" and 2a for "version". So the definition of the combined words would read something like "to make minor changes in a form or variant of a type or original" or "to make basic or fundamental changes in a form or variant of a type or original often to give a new orientation to or to serve a new end"
When ATRS designed the Modern series rifles they did not make minor or fundamental changes to an AR15 in order to make it non restricted, they built it from the ground up to be their own design in order to be non restricted. Had they modified an AR15 in order to meet the requirements for a non restricted rifle, it would then have traced its lineage to the AR15 and be deemed a variant. The FRT comments stated it did NOT trace its lineage to the AR15 and was an entirely new design. So from the way I interpret it the MS, MV and MH rifles are not "modified versions" of an AR15. Of course I'm not a lawyer, I am also not a judge, and judges in Canada often do NOT take a textualist/originalist approach, rather they take the activist purposivism/living constitution approach (ie whatever they want the law to say is what the law says).
- Location
- calgary alberta
This is my stance, you are correct. Our claim is. based on justifications and the fact that the government broke the law in re-classifying not only our rifles but many others.
We got your back.
rifleman762
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
As much as I vehemently disagree with gun prohibitions in general and this OIC in particular, the OIC was clearly worded to capture pre-AR15 designs like the AR10 and AR102. Unlike the previous restricted AR15 OIC which didn't mention those.
That said, a clean sheet design engineered to use the same internal components as an AR15 is NOT an AR15. Just as the RCMP determined with the original Modern Sporter FRT.
Buuut...when the litigation indicates that the RCMP will lose this case the Liberal Party will simply issue a new OIC to include all these ATRS guns (and more). This moving goalpost is the most obscene part of this whole #### show.
What if an auto manufacturer designed a car to comply with all existing safety standards, spent huge $$$ on R&D, invested in manufacturing capacity and then a couple years later the federal government says "Sorry, this model is prohibited; cease production and sales!"
Noone would stand for that! Why is it so different with the gun industry? It's somehow ok to drag them through the mud and force them out of business? This BS gets me hotter under the collar than the thought of losing my own guns...
If there's going to be firearm classifications, the determinants need to be consistent and objective attributes of the firearm. Not the fact that some latté liberal feels triggered when they see a photo of it... PolySeSouvient claims that manufacturers like ATRS were "skirting the law" with their new designs. No, they were COMPLYING with the law!
It's like at my workplace when the QA Manager says that our product is "Almost out of grade". You know what "almost out of grade" means? It means you're in grade! LOL
That said, a clean sheet design engineered to use the same internal components as an AR15 is NOT an AR15. Just as the RCMP determined with the original Modern Sporter FRT.
Buuut...when the litigation indicates that the RCMP will lose this case the Liberal Party will simply issue a new OIC to include all these ATRS guns (and more). This moving goalpost is the most obscene part of this whole #### show.
What if an auto manufacturer designed a car to comply with all existing safety standards, spent huge $$$ on R&D, invested in manufacturing capacity and then a couple years later the federal government says "Sorry, this model is prohibited; cease production and sales!"
Noone would stand for that! Why is it so different with the gun industry? It's somehow ok to drag them through the mud and force them out of business? This BS gets me hotter under the collar than the thought of losing my own guns...
If there's going to be firearm classifications, the determinants need to be consistent and objective attributes of the firearm. Not the fact that some latté liberal feels triggered when they see a photo of it... PolySeSouvient claims that manufacturers like ATRS were "skirting the law" with their new designs. No, they were COMPLYING with the law!
It's like at my workplace when the QA Manager says that our product is "Almost out of grade". You know what "almost out of grade" means? It means you're in grade! LOL
- Location
- Banana Republik of Kebekistan
Nice to see a REAL Canadian standing up. An inspiration well deserving our support.
There is a lot of info to take in here. My friend Mike initially was unaware of AT's no refund policy but that's totally on him. It explains why he got no response requesting an order cancellation when this COVID situation flared up and expressed financial uncertainties.
That said with everything that has happened since, he's glad they aren't offering refunds because he is proud to know he will receive a fitting political statement in the form of a CCFR edition sports rifle and he is proud to support the organization that is fighting for our rights
That said with everything that has happened since, he's glad they aren't offering refunds because he is proud to know he will receive a fitting political statement in the form of a CCFR edition sports rifle and he is proud to support the organization that is fighting for our rights
Quebec's Provincial Police to consider prohibited only firearms in IOC
This thread is from francophone forum:
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2020736-Mise-a-Jour-SQ-CFO-QC-OIC-ATRS-MS-etc
The important point is that SQ will only consider a firearms as prohibited if it is in IOC and will not consider FRT status.
That means that I will be able to legally shot my ATRS MS in Quebec this summer!!!
This is great news for all Canadians since I suspect that the entire FRT reclassification is basically considered at least dubious by one large law enforcement organisation.
Alex
This thread is from francophone forum:
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2020736-Mise-a-Jour-SQ-CFO-QC-OIC-ATRS-MS-etc
The important point is that SQ will only consider a firearms as prohibited if it is in IOC and will not consider FRT status.
That means that I will be able to legally shot my ATRS MS in Quebec this summer!!!
This is great news for all Canadians since I suspect that the entire FRT reclassification is basically considered at least dubious by one large law enforcement organisation.
Alex
Last edited:
Fixed link: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2020736-Mise-a-Jour-SQ-CFO-QC-OIC-ATRS-MS-etc
Interesting development. My French is non-existent, what is the source for this info?
Also, what about other police forces in Quebec? The RCMP?
Interesting development. My French is non-existent, what is the source for this info?
Also, what about other police forces in Quebec? The RCMP?
First, thanks for the fixed link, I tried to fix mine but am not sure it the method I used is correct!
Source: the original thread poster which talked directly to SQ which is responsible for firearm law enforcement in Quebec.
SQ is the sole police agency responsible for enforcing these laws in Quebec. RCMP deals with federal issues: drugs, frauds, foreign VIP protection, terrorism, etc.
All provinces in Canada should have their own provincial police force directly accountable to the provincial minister of security or its equivalent.
Alexn\
- Location
- The Kawartha Lakes Region in Ontario
This actually is good news...thanks for sharing this Alex!
Avalonthas
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Toronto ON
Are you producing the Sterling Arms Target Rifle, or is it under license? So much mixed information out there but apparently its based on MS? I am so confused
PinaKaleada
CGN Regular
- Location
- South of most
That one is a copy of the MS. It’s made of 6061 aluminum. If you want quality, go with ATRS, they use 7075 and it’s a much better material in general.
