A lot of American bashing of the Norinco M14Ss...

My only complaint with the Norinco's is that there aren't enough to go around (that is, for some of us gunnuts to have our third or fourth or fifth one...). From what I can tell this is by far everyone's biggest concern, so that speaks for itself. We aren't all morons; if these guns were nearly as bad as some (some, definitely not all) U.S reviewers suggest, we would know by now. Most people I know who have an M14S pretty much right away want another one, then another, then another...
 
RockChucker said:
Just a typical American attitude! I have owned at least 4 Rincos and 2 Springfields. Only difference between the two is that after buying the Rincos I had money left over to buy a wack of ammo for the difference.
Accuracy wise, edge goes to the Rincos. Provided we are comparing as issued M14s vs as issued M305s and not the HB NM model springfield.
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depends on what m14 issue you're addressing- if you're really talking m14( as in us made, , late 50's early 60's issue) i would venture to say the rinc o is on par, but not necessarily superior- however, if it's one of the isreali surplus, it's been picked for superior grouping- i still have 3 of those, and they all out-group the rinco- with the trw grouping the tightest of the bunch, then the springfield, then the h&r
 
It does not bother me that many in the US think Chinese M14s are worthless crap.
This negative internet hype helped keep the prices down for those of us that know
better, but word must be getting out because the average price keeps going up.
$850 to $950 seems to be the current average for bone stock ChiCom M14s.
I'm glad I went shopping when they were $400 to $650 :)
 
RockChucker said:
Just a typical American attitude! I have owned at least 4 Rincos and 2 Springfields. Only difference between the two is that after buying the Rincos I had money left over to buy a wack of ammo for the difference.
Accuracy wise, edge goes to the Rincos. Provided we are comparing as issued M14s vs as issued M305s and not the HB NM model springfield.
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I wouldn't say that. Just as much bias here. And maybe less in the States, afterall they're worth alot more there, than here.
 
sunray said:
none of which are built on a real M14 receiver,
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So who exactly do you think is building rifles on a "real" m14 receiver? The correct answer is "nobody". "Real" M14 receivers are no longer made and were selectable fire capable. I would suggest that the ones being made by the Chinese are no more real than those being made by LRB, Springfield, etc. What is the best out there? Well, LRB is supposedly making a damn good receiver. Of course the Chinese are too but they have the advantage of cheap labor. The US companies don't. So of course they are more expensive.

Seriously, what financial advantage do you think Fulton is getting out of running down the Chinese rifles? They aren't available in the US anyway, so no matter what Fulton says, their customers aren't going to rush out and buy one. If they want an M-14 they are buying an SA or building one from available parts (ie the stuff Fulton is selling). There is no way for customers in the US to get a Chinese anyway so again, what would be the point of a conspiracy by Fulton to keep the reputation of the Chinese rifle down.

As far as the "old" Chinese rifles that are available in the US, I have measured the headspace, I have checked the receiver measurements, and frankly, they don't measure up that well. Fulton is actually correct in this regard although I can't speak to metallurgy.
 
powmia56 said:
There is no way for customers in the US to get a Chinese anyway so again, what would be the point of a conspiracy by Fulton to keep the reputation of the Chinese rifle down.

As far as the "old" Chinese rifles that are available in the US, I have measured the headspace, I have checked the receiver measurements, and frankly, they don't measure up that well. Fulton is actually correct in this regard although I can't speak to metallurgy.
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The "old" Chinese M14s are excellent. Fulton Armory does not have it right.

BTW, Fulton Armory sells/builds on a cast receiver that has their name on it ...
 
powmia56 said:
Seriously, what financial advantage do you think Fulton is getting out of running down the Chinese rifles? They aren't available in the US anyway, so no matter what Fulton says, their customers aren't going to rush out and buy one. If they want an M-14 they are buying an SA or building one from available parts (ie the stuff Fulton is selling). There is no way for customers in the US to get a Chinese anyway so again, what would be the point of a conspiracy by Fulton to keep the reputation of the Chinese rifle down?
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They run down the Norinco rifles as a way to keep the value up in Springfield and other makers, and the perceived value of their opinions. They make their money on upgrading rack grade rifles to fancier shooters. I also think it is a way they keep their production costs under control by having one set of tooling and workflows oriented to Springfield rifles.
 
thats the sad thing about imports - and this also applies to european imports to a lesser extent. most of the gun reviews, websites, mags, etc are american, with a lot of patriotism, financial interest and stubbornness mixed in, so there is a tendancy to bash anything that isnt a remchester. look at all the tikka bashing for example. tikkas are no longer really my taste, unless i want a mid-priced working gun, but you have to give credit where its due: they do offer a very accurate, well made rifle for the money, which is more than you can say for a lot of the current production mid-range remingtons. but again in many of the american forums there are threads ragging on their cheapness, inaccuracy, poor quality control, etc.

so although many of their criticisms and reviews may be totally unbiased and honest, you never know for sure because it could just be typical 'import bashing'.
im more inclined to trust canadian reviews since people here seem more unbiased and receptive to imports.
 
I hate the current M14 situation here in North America. I was planning an EBR build, had the Sage, $1100 Leupold etc. I didn't want a Norinco, being a Norinco. Yeah, yeah, forged receiver, $400-500, close to spec... it's a dirty Norc period. Then I found out Springfield uses cast parts from some peculiar sources and wants $2100 dollars for one. I think I'll have better luck trying to find a surplus M14 in Lithuania.
 
i remember the first time i went to the springfield armory site and looked at their prices, i laughed my #%@ off.
all guns are pretty overpriced for what they are these days, but SA is just off the charts.
theyve done a spectacular job with marketing though.
 
There are lot of CA (converted full auto's) in Canada. Alan Lever imported thousands. TRW, Springfield Armory, H+R, and Winchester. I bought a collectors pack from him ( 1 of each make) for $1200.00. I think it was around 1988. They were very common at Alberta gunshows for quite a while, usually selling for around $450.00.
 
buckbrush said:
There are lot of CA (converted full auto's) in Canada. Alan Lever imported thousands. TRW, Springfield Armory, H+R, and Winchester. I bought a collectors pack from him ( 1 of each make) for $1200.00. I think it was around 1988. They were very common at Alberta gunshows for quite a while, usually selling for around $450.00.
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Some of us were still in school then ....;) But I do remember a fellow in North Gower called Katick Supplies (or something close) whose flyer had all manner of WWII odds and sods Soviet, ex US and Eastern Bloc bipod and tripod converted semis that nowadays are permanent locker queens.
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
Some of us were still in school then ....;) But I do remember a fellow in North Gower called Katick Supplies (or something close) whose flyer had all manner of WWII odds and sods Soviet, ex US and Eastern Bloc bipod and tripod converted semis that nowadays are permanent locker queens.
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Dont forget that Wilke guy in Ontario up in the Kenagami area. That guy sold everything, and I mean everything. From brens, MG34, semi auto SA80, HK's etc etc. I had some friends that bought brens, and an HK 93 from him. Anyone know if he's still in business?
 
On the flip side of this, why all the hype in Canada about Norincos? Is it price, availability, lack of something else to compare it to (i.e. LRB, Fulton, SEI)? Not bashing Norinco, I just don't understand the infatuation with them. I will say that I wish more would have been imported into the states, kinda seems to help keep prices in line a little down here.
 
i had my chance to buy a trw m14 back in the 80's..... i shoulda bought it.... worth it just for the parts alone these days. I could sell the bolt and oprod and be ahead of what it woulda cost me for the whole rifle ( 550.00 back then).
I've owned several norcs now and i have been happy with every one. from fit and finish to puttin holes in targets..... they are a decent rifle as is and they also make for excellent project guns, which i think is what i like about them the most. Not concerned with anti norc comments from down south, all my experiences have been positive with the norc m14s.
 
I had a TRW back in the day which was dead stock--it didn't shoot any better than the last dead stock Norc that I had. Not to say that the fit and finish was much better and parts were much more available then.

44Bore
 
Hollywood said:
On the flip side of this, why all the hype in Canada about Norincos? Is it price, availability, lack of something else to compare it to (i.e. LRB, Fulton, SEI)? Not bashing Norinco, I just don't understand the infatuation with them. I will say that I wish more would have been imported into the states, kinda seems to help keep prices in line a little down here.
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They are really cheap, really reliable and pretty accurate. I know a fair number of people with more expensive brands of M14s and M1as...I do not know many people with guns that outperform the norks. Except, of course, the accurized versions. But then, accurized norks are definitely competitive with these guns.

I have nicer guns than my norks but in terms of bang for buck they are unbeatable.
 
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My friend had a Springfield M1A and my Norc shot just as well during our range time together. Of course, he paid almost $1200 more for his rifle. It does suck, however, seeing the "Made In China" stamp on the receiver, nevertheless, I remind myself it's only a stigma.:D
 
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