Service Rifle SR CQB with BOLT Guns

Out of curiosity what are the caliber restrictions on these courses/competitions? I've used every conceivable type of action on a firearm over the course of my life and I always fall back to bolt and semi depending on my situation. The idea of using a 6mm Creedmore in a bolt for several different types of training and competition really piques my interest. I've been considering building one anyways and this would put me over the top.
 
Farris Bueller said:
I have a Remmy 700 .308 win 16.5” HV barrel 1:10 twist with a MDT LSS chassis, muzzle brake and 10rd Steel MDT mags. Magpul grip and strike industries Viper Mod 1 stock. Currently a Vortex 6-24 HS-T Mrad scope in QD Burris XTR 30mm rings sits on top and I have to say I love this rifle it’s is sort of a do all. Nice and short weighs under 7lbs total. With Or without handloads it shoots great. Sounds like it would meet the needs of these types of competition very well.
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This could be used for SR, although that is way more scope than needed. Recoil with .308 would be a disadvantage for rapid fire strings or if rapid pairs are fired.
Waaay too much scope and ammunition for CQB. It is all close range.
Depending on CoF, a rather large number of rounds may be fired.
 
stormbringerii said:
Out of curiosity what are the caliber restrictions on these courses/competitions? I've used every conceivable type of action on a firearm over the course of my life and I always fall back to bolt and semi depending on my situation. The idea of using a 6mm Creedmore in a bolt for several different types of training and competition really piques my interest. I've been considering building one anyways and this would put me over the top.
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CQB is close range, tends to be rapid fire. Lots of reasons for .223 to be popular. As mentioned above, 7.62x39 has also been used.
6mm Creedmore would certainly work for SR. Often your brass will be left behind, depending on the CoF. Might or might not be able to recover it, depending on the match program.
 
Caliber Choice

stormbringerii said:
Out of curiosity what are the caliber restrictions on these courses/competitions? I've used every conceivable type of action on a firearm over the course of my life and I always fall back to bolt and semi depending on my situation. The idea of using a 6mm Creedmore in a bolt for several different types of training and competition really piques my interest. I've been considering building one anyways and this would put me over the top.
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Beside the actual merits of the cartridge, if you plan to shoot at some Military ranges they can have very particular restrictions. Make sure you check with MDs of the orgs you plan to shoot with.
 
That certainly can be a factor. Some DND ranges list specific approved calibers.
 
IIRC at CFB Borden, one of the approved calibers is 30-30...might make for an interesting rifle match. As for bolt guns .223 would be the most economical option that fits on the approved caliber list.
 
Komodo said:
OK but if we continue with the competitions with bolt guns wont the liberals say see you don't need AR's for sports shooting. I think it would be better to cancel all shooting events where the AR would normally be used to show it has impacted sports shooting. Instead of adapting to Trudeau's rules
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I completely agree with this sentiment.

By altering course of fires to artificially make bolt guns competative (in these 2 disciplines, they're just not) we're supporting the argument that "no one needs those for sporting use." shooting an airsoft rifle or a .22 for CQB makes more sense to me than an altered course of fire for bolt guns.
 
Junior37c said:
Maybe the politicians don't but the courts may. It's baked into the firearms code that if it has a sporting use it can't be prohibited. (Thanks to DCRA back in the 70's.)
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That isn't exactly what the "firearms code" says.
But it is one one of the arguments in a current court challenge. We'll get to see if it has any weight.
 
Junior37c said:
I completely agree with this sentiment.

By altering course of fires to artificially make bolt guns competative (in these 2 disciplines, they're just not) we're supporting the argument that "no one needs those for sporting use." shooting an airsoft rifle or a .22 for CQB makes more sense to me than an altered course of fire for bolt guns.
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The AR has been used for competitive shooting for decades. The proof is there.
At this moment, your AR will be locked up for 2 years before it is collected and destroyed. You cannot legally use it for anything. Unless the court challenges are able to reverse the OIC, or there is an election and a change in government.
In the meantime, you can sit at home, or you can get out and shoot.
 
stormbringerii said:
Out of curiosity what are the caliber restrictions on these courses/competitions? I've used every conceivable type of action on a firearm over the course of my life and I always fall back to bolt and semi depending on my situation. The idea of using a 6mm Creedmore in a bolt for several different types of training and competition really piques my interest. I've been considering building one anyways and this would put me over the top.
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The 6mm Creedmoor is better suited to longer distances than you would encounter in CQB. Sure, you could shoot one in these in close range matches, but it would be costly, you would lose brass, and wear the barrel for no advantage over 223.
 
They’ve been going after these rifles in Australia for years and I’ve heard the straight pull AR looking bolt guns in the U.K. are coming under scrutiny.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...-carrons-fast-lever-action-rifle-in-australia

My concern is, without any certainty on whether I have any rights to firearms - buying another system and investing in training will
be for naught.

I’d rather take that money I would be spending on a new rifle and give it to the legal challenges. Don’t shoot this year and the money I would spend on ammo, matches - given to the legal challenges. And if I can work that 100 extra hours instead of shooting or travelling to matches - well money from that work give to the legal challenge.

That’s my two cents - I’m giving the rest to the legal challenges.
 
I can appreciate your point of view.
Are the challenges being adequately funded? This may not be an either/or situation. Why not both?
 
tiriaq said:
I can appreciate your point of view.
Are the challenges being adequately funded? This may not be an either/or situation. Why not both?
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While I don’t hold anything against anyone for opening the discussion about other rifles. Some think it’s treasonous - that’s just ridiculous.
However....There is some validity (IMHO) to the point it weakens the case the AR is “necessary”. And also - if people know there is an exit it is less likely everyone will fight this to the bitter end. I say lock up all exits. No life rafts. We right the Titanic or all hands will be lost at sea.

I’ve already gone though 12.6 and 12.5 twenty five years ago. 90% of my collection is now bolt rifle Milsurps. So the ban doesn’t affect me too much - But I’m done with any more concessions.

In terms of money. Our fight can never be over funded. Why don’t we fund some studies? Why don’t we fund some TV commercials. We are literally spending pennies on the dollar vs what we spend every year and what we’ve invested for decades (time is money!).

Surprised the NRA has not chipped in as well. Most of these ARs and components are US made. Sure we are a small market but can any business piss away a few thousand sales every year???
 
tiriaq said:
The AR has been used for competitive shooting for decades. The proof is there.
At this moment, your AR will be locked up for 2 years before it is collected and destroyed. You cannot legally use it for anything. Unless the court challenges are able to reverse the OIC, or there is an election and a change in government.
In the meantime, you can sit at home, or you can get out and shoot.
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My CQB platform isn't affected. I'm actually still good to go. But beyond that, "if we're buying a new platform for this anyways." there's LOTS of options out there that are based off of a design more recent than 1898, that also fit the application a lot better.

Now if someone wants to show up and shoot it with a lever action 30-30, or a bolt action, or an airsoft gun, or a slingshot, by all means go for it, I'll be happy to see it and cheer it on. What I'm not ok with is altering the rules to make concessions for stuff that's been obsolete for more than 100 years.
 
sledge said:
While I don’t hold anything against anyone for opening the discussion about other rifles. Some think it’s treasonous - that’s just ridiculous.
However....There is some validity (IMHO) to the point it weakens the case the AR is “necessary”. And also - if people know there is an exit it is less likely everyone will fight this to the bitter end. I say lock up all exits. No life rafts. We right the Titanic or all hands will be lost at sea.

I’ve already gone though 12.6 and 12.5 twenty five years ago. 90% of my collection is now bolt rifle Milsurps. So the ban doesn’t affect me too much - But I’m done with any more concessions.

In terms of money. Our fight can never be over funded. Why don’t we fund some studies? Why don’t we fund some TV commercials. We are literally spending pennies on the dollar vs what we spend every year and what we’ve invested for decades (time is money!).
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Much respect to you sir. and I completely agree with all your points. I hope I don't come off as suggesting that it's treasonous. I am a firm believer in shooting what makes you happy, if you wanna show up to a CQB match in WW1 attire with WW1 equipment and shoot it, I will be the first guy to say that that's super cool. And if we want to add a "WW1 division." I'm good with that too.
 
Last year, 2019, the Match Director invited an abbreviated CQB CoF for Vintage Milsurp rigs. I was the RSO on the firing line. It sure was fun....

I forgot to mention this was at the May or June CQB match in Base Borden’s Langemark Range Bay4.

I got to see a couple of M1 Garands , a No.4, a P17 in .303 (or is it P14?), a No.5 JC, and yes, a lever gun .357 Marlin 1894. It sure was fun.

The entire idea is to get out there; keep making community and of course, keep shooting!

Cheers, Barney
 
Tagged. been wanting to practice this in the backyard for a while now. Time to start.

Oh, and CZ Ranger Rifle. Savage scout in 7.62x39 and any of the other CZ in x39
 
Really you don't need equipment based classes just time based. Hardcore (original timing) and relaxed (longer timing). If you want to run a bolt on short timing go for it. If your an old or new guy who would have more fun in relaxed go for it. Relaxed would be more points based and hardcore more point/time based. Not sure how two different timings would work from a MD perspective but it could be an option.
 
TRDJer said:
Really you don't need equipment based classes just time based. Hardcore (original timing) and relaxed (longer timing). If you want to run a bolt on short timing go for it. If your an old or new guy who would have more fun in relaxed go for it. Relaxed would be more points based and hardcore more point/time based. Not sure how two different timings would work from a MD perspective but it could be an option.
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The more I think about it the more I'm on side with this. I don't think many of us are out there at Barney's events looking to be world champion, we're mostly there to enjoy the community and try to beat ourselves. So in that spirit, "pick which time you think fits." works.
 
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