When I do my job, the rifle is happy to do its job: AKA My rifle is embarassed by me!

[neilselden]

Another great morning at the range. I'm getting a little more accurate, but as you can see, my aiming needs quite a bit of work. That said, when I actually shoot correctly, the rifle is just great.

25 yards, 10 rounds
Marlin 989 M2
Blazer 22lr, 40gr round nose

Cheers,
Neil

 

[a j cave]

Yea practice and a little instruction works wonders.

 

[.22LRGUY]

Fun 22! Keep at it. 25 yards is an OK place to start, 50 yards might be a better indicator of what the gun/ammo/skill combo is giving you. Generally speaking, bulk/high-velocity ammo might be among the least accurate option you could reach for, I'd suggest you bring a larger variety of ammo to the range when you go next time. You'll no-doubt see that your rifle will like (accuracy-wise) some types more than others.

 

[neilselden]

Fun 22! Keep at it. 25 yards is an OK place to start, 50 yards might be a better indicator of what the gun/ammo/skill combo is giving you. Generally speaking, bulk/high-velocity ammo might be among the least accurate option you could reach for, I'd suggest you bring a larger variety of ammo to the range when you go next time. You'll no-doubt see that your rifle will like (accuracy-wise) some types more than others.

Yup. I tried 3 kinds of Federal, American Eagle, CCI mini mags, and CCI Blazers. The rifle likes CCI the best. I am sure the huge groupings are because I need to develop my skills. Good thing that's one of the fun parts of shooting - working at it to improve. Honestly, I'm happy with how the rifle/ammo combo performs - at this point, I am the weak link. Once I shoot up to the capabilities of that combo, I may work seriously on becoming accurate, which you're right, will need better ammo (and a bolt action rifle). As it stands, I see that the combo is capable of 1-2 minutes of angle at 25 yards, so I have a LONG ways to go!

Once I can reliably group 5 shots in a 1" bullseye at 25 yards, I plan to move to 50 yards and work on getting 5 shots reliably in a 1" bullseye. I'm sure you're right that 50 yards will reveal a lot more about my shooting and just how capable the rifle and ammo are.

I'm getting there little by little. It's taken me 5 range trips to dial in the sights and work on my accuracy and reliability. It started with 2-3" groups at 25 yards, and after reading how to shoot properly and some practice, most groups are within 1-2" from seated with a sling support. Today I managed 10 shots in a 1" group, centered in the upper left of that bullseye - so some shots were not in the center, but in the next outer ring.

Cheers,
Neil

I will definitely keep at it - and I also like your enthusiasm.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[.22LRGUY]

Hey Neil-agreed, practice/more practice=all good! I guess the point I was trying to make is this-there is a possibility that you won't find that gun+HV ammo to ever achieve the groups you're after. Not a comment on you or the gun, just to manage the expectations...and not blame yourself. lol I mean, "accurate" is subjective, but I've had 2 Marlin semis (795s) that shot very well with SV ammo, they did not like HV ammo at all. BUT, if you feel HV ammo is what you want to use (hunting, longer range, reliable cycling in that model, or all 3) then just keep trying different types.

I'd still urge you to bring SV ammo on the next range trip, and see what you get accuracy-wise. Especially @ 25-50 yards target shooting. HV only delivers more noise, and less accuracy potential.

Last time I did an ammo test, I brought all types I had-fast and slow. I wished I'd kept the targets to post as well, some grouped very well...others looked like shotgun patterns. lol (not quite, it is a CZ ) Anyhow, it takes more time...but I gave-up (maybe 10 years ago) on figuring out how to get a gun shooting the ammo I want it to...and let the gun tell me instead. Critical with hand loading centerfire where the whole process centres around these very subtle differences, but equally important if you want your 22 shooting to it's full potential. Good luck!

 

[neilselden]

Hey Neil-agreed, practice/more practice=all good! I guess the point I was trying to make is this-there is a possibility that you won't find that gun+HV ammo to ever achieve the groups you're after. Not a comment on you or the gun, just to manage the expectations...and not blame yourself. lol I mean, "accurate" is subjective, but I've had 2 Marlin semis (795s) that shot very well with SV ammo, they did not like HV ammo at all. BUT, if you feel HV ammo is what you want to use (hunting, longer range, reliable cycling in that model, or all 3) then just keep trying different types.

I'd still urge you to bring SV ammo on the next range trip, and see what you get accuracy-wise. Especially @ 25-50 yards target shooting. HV only delivers more noise, and less accuracy potential.

Last time I did an ammo test, I brought all types I had-fast and slow. I wished I'd kept the targets to post as well, some grouped very well...others looked like shotgun patterns. lol (not quite, it is a CZ ) Anyhow, it takes more time...but I gave-up (maybe 10 years ago) on figuring out how to get a gun shooting the ammo I want it to...and let the gun tell me instead. Critical with hand loading centerfire where the whole process centres around these very subtle differences, but equally important if you want your 22 shooting to it's full potential. Good luck!

That's a nice looking rifle! But no iron sights? Did you also cheat on school tests? (Joking - i am joking!)

I know you're right about SV vs HV - I'll bring some CCI SV next time I'm out there. And if it checks out like you said (I have little doubt it will), then I'll keep my eyes open for a case of it.

All in all, I'm pretty happy with the rifle's performance. Though I have no doubt it can be improved upon.

Last thought: the main reason I feel confident in the rifle/ammo combo is that I usually know when I shot poorly. Either I rushed the shot, or did not follow through properly after firing. When I know I did my best, the groups are almost always quite good - but I do see a flier every so often. Even so, no doubt that better ammo will (very probably) perform better.

Anyway, I really appreciate your thoughts - it's great to hear from a more experienced and helpful person - thanks!

Cheers,
Neil

 

[grauhanen]

Are you shooting off hand, without resting the rifle on anything? If you are testing your rifle for accuracy, use some sandbags or something affordable like the front and rear bag shown below.

 

[neilselden]

Are you shooting off hand, without resting the rifle on anything? If you are testing your rifle for accuracy, use some sandbags or something affordable like the front and rear bag shown below.

I mostly shoot sitting and use a hasty sling. I'm trying to limit the shooting aids that I use - just my way of doing it right now. I want to see where my own physical limits are before adding too much stuff in.

Good advice though, I know it would improve my shooting quite a bit.

 

[horseman2]

Interesting assortment of ammo.
The American manufactured ammo rarely has the quality control that is required for true accuracy.
The high velocity copper clad ammo can give some rare good groups but the variation in velocity shows up in groups.
Testing some CCI MiniMags in RN and HP. The RN was giving 2" at 100 yards and the HP was over 6".
I have also stopped using copper clad bullets as there is a cleaning process and refouling the bore to go back to lead.
Strikes me as there is less variation in shooting whatever lead but different guns react differently.
CCI SV is probably some of the most consistent American made but keep in mind the Paper Box in made under contract and the Plastic trays come out of the Idaho facility.
Blazer may work well in some guns and I have used it in my 10/22 for Speed Steel as well as ThunderBolt, American Eagle and CCI.
CCI SV uses a more waxy lube and some rifles have a problem.
The suggestion regarding CenterX is good and there is also Eley Match and RWS R50.
Testing of ammo is critical and when you find a lot of Match ammo the really works then it is time to buy a case.

 

[neilselden]

Interesting assortment of ammo.
The American manufactured ammo rarely has the quality control that is required for true accuracy.
The high velocity copper clad ammo can give some rare good groups but the variation in velocity shows up in groups.
Testing some CCI MiniMags in RN and HP. The RN was giving 2" at 100 yards and the HP was over 6".
I have also stopped using copper clad bullets as there is a cleaning process and refouling the bore to go back to lead.
Strikes me as there is less variation in shooting whatever lead but different guns react differently.
CCI SV is probably some of the most consistent American made but keep in mind the Paper Box in made under contract and the Plastic trays come out of the Idaho facility.
Blazer may work well in some guns and I have used it in my 10/22 for Speed Steel as well as ThunderBolt, American Eagle and CCI.
CCI SV uses a more waxy lube and some rifles have a problem.
The suggestion regarding CenterX is good and there is also Eley Match and RWS R50.
Testing of ammo is critical and when you find a lot of Match ammo the really works then it is time to buy a case.

You guys take your rimfire seriously. I'd be extremely happy with a 2" group at 100yards. Practice practice practice.

 

[.22LRGUY]

I think it was the mention of CCI Blazer that first got me interested, because surprisingly enough...it's the cheapest HV ammo that my CZ 452 Varmint shoots best. (the one pictured is a 452 American 16" variant...which was never built with iron sights ) The trigger on that bolt gun has been reworked, and I did my load testing on a pretty steady bench with heavy bags. A pretty good heavy gun with a good trigger properly supported, and you'll get a good sense of the good/bad/otherwise. @ 50 yards, it's reliably under 3/4" in my gun, but important to point out that in that fairly controlled situation, I see the some fliers that I'm about 99% sure are ammo-related. I get fliers in the same set-up using CCI SV, but the groups are on average smaller, the fliers less common...and not as far away from the shots that printed well.

Having said all of that, I always test with every ammo type I have on hand at the time...and 3 things come from every session like that;

1. I learn which ammo is the worst
2. I learn which ammo is the best
3. I ignore #2, and pick the best-shooting ammo that is around $10/50 lol

I jest, but that's probably a pretty accurate description how it goes. A couple of years back, I got my first really snazzy 22.....and learned it shot SK Rifle Match really well. That was until I tried RWS R50. Looking at what both cost, the gun enjoys a fairly steady diet of SK Rifle Match.

 

[neilselden]

I think it was the mention of CCI Blazer that first got me interested, because surprisingly enough...it's the cheapest HV ammo that my CZ 452 Varmint shoots best. (the one pictured is a 452 American 16" variant...which was never built with iron sights ) The trigger on that bolt gun has been reworked, and I did my load testing on a pretty steady bench with heavy bags. A pretty good heavy gun with a good trigger properly supported, and you'll get a good sense of the good/bad/otherwise. @ 50 yards, it's reliably under 3/4" in my gun, but important to point out that in that fairly controlled situation, I see the some fliers that I'm about 99% sure are ammo-related. I get fliers in the same set-up using CCI SV, but the groups are on average smaller, the fliers less common...and not as far away from the shots that printed well.

Having said all of that, I always test with every ammo type I have on hand at the time...and 3 things come from every session like that;

1. I learn which ammo is the worst
2. I learn which ammo is the best
3. I ignore #2, and pick the best-shooting ammo that is around $10/50 lol

I jest, but that's probably a pretty accurate description how it goes. A couple of years back, I got my first really snazzy 22.....and learned it shot SK Rifle Match really well. That was until I tried RWS R50. Looking at what both cost, the gun enjoys a fairly steady diet of SK Rifle Match.

*LAUGH* I got a case of Blazers for $.06/round. I know what you mean about the calculus of selecting your ammo brand and type.

 

[enefgee]

An old guy I used to know once told me that the secret of accurate shooting was to aim, then do everything you can to get out of the guns way, so it can do its thing. He said most men try to control the gun, when they succeed in controlling it completely, that's when they miss.

 

[neilselden]

An old guy I used to know once told me that the secret of accurate shooting was to aim, then do everything you can to get out of the guns way, so it can do its thing. He said most men try to control the gun, when they succeed in controlling it completely, that's when they miss.

Yup. That "control" introduces alot of muscular tension which transmits every little involuntary movement of your body to the rifle.

When I was waiting for my PAL to be processed, and then while waiting for the ranges to re-open, I read what I could find on sight alignment and natural point of aim. It's still just mostly book stuff to me, as I don't have enough practice to reliably shoot properly each and every time. I don't have the experience yet to have it baked into my muscles. But I notice that when I let the rifle rest on me as a support, when I repeat the correct sight alignment, and when I make sure to fire in between breaths, that little rifle is happy to shoot good groups right in that bullseye.