308 Garand relaoding and saftey

Chatrbaz84

Chatrbaz84

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Hi everyone , any experience with 308 garand with RL-15 powder , any reloading recepie for 168smk , 175 smk , 147 FMJ?

PMC factory 7.62 , chines surplus bulk ammo and Federal 147FMJ bulk I think is too much for my M1 garand 308 because shoot the case behind me 8 meters away and make mark on the case ,


any suggestion ?

I am looking for reload recepie with rl15
 
RL15 is too slow burning for use in a Garand. The recommended propellants with the correct burning speed for the gas system are IMR4895 or IMR4064. Other propellants can be used with an adjustable gas plug, but the best approach is to use one of the 2 powders mentioned.
 
purple said:
RL15 is too slow burning for use in a Garand. The recommended propellants with the correct burning speed for the gas system are IMR4895 or IMR4064. Other propellants can be used with an adjustable gas plug, but the best approach is to use one of the 2 powders mentioned.
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This...

And I would keep to 168gr projectiles or lower. Mine likes the 155gr Hornady with cannelure, which I can add a little crimp to. Needs a reasonable amount of powder behind the cartridge to properly cycle the action, otherwise cartridge ejects but bolt doesn't retract far enough to chamber the next round. As with any handload, start low, expect the cycling issue, and step up in reasonable (0.5gr) increments until reliable cycling is achieved.

Check brass frequently for pressure signs - primer and extractor marks.
 
purple said:
RL15 is too slow burning for use in a Garand. The recommended propellants with the correct burning speed for the gas system are IMR4895 or IMR4064. Other propellants can be used with an adjustable gas plug, but the best approach is to use one of the 2 powders mentioned.
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Hey Purple

What do you think of Varget in the Garand? I use it in a pinch if I'm out of IMR powders?

Any other Hodgdon powders that make the cut for you for the Garand?
 
FirearmsEnthusiast said:
Hey Purple

What do you think of Varget in the Garand? I use it in a pinch if I'm out of IMR powders?

Any other Hodgdon powders that make the cut for you for the Garand?
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I've used H4895, which is a close cousin of IMR4895, with good results. Varget is a bit slow for the Garand, but I like it in .30-06/.308 bolt guns. IMR 4895 was the MILSPEC propellant for a gazillion rounds of military .30-06 ammo and its also a champ in the .308. As the old saying goes, "if IMR 4895 doesn't shoot well in your .308/7.62, you have a rifle problem".;)
 
purple said:
I've used H4895, which is a close cousin of IMR4895, with good results. Varget is a bit slow for the Garand, but I like it in .30-06/.308 bolt guns. IMR 4895 was the MILSPEC propellant for a gazillion rounds of military .30-06 ammo and its also a champ in the .308. As the old saying goes, "if IMR 4895 doesn't shoot well in your .308/7.62, you have a rifle problem".;)
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Really helpful - thanks!
 
FirearmsEnthusiast said:
Hey Purple

What do you think of Varget in the Garand? I use it in a pinch if I'm out of IMR powders?

Any other Hodgdon powders that make the cut for you for the Garand?
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I only use Varget in my M1. I tried all the others and had the best luck with it. It fits snugly in with 4064 and 4895 for burn rate. While mine is a 30-06, I have a friend with a 308 who also uses Varget almost exclusively. We both use 168 BTHP's for our regular match loads, and I use Barnes 175 Match Burners for my longer range match loads which closely replicates the original match loadings. I have also used 190 BTHP with the slower burning H4350 with very good success out to 800 meters, but the 175's do just fine out at that distance as well. H4350 is generally too slow with the lighter bullets in 308 especially.

Definitely recommend Varget for the Garand!
 
Sharps45-70 said:
I only use Varget in my M1. I tried all the others and had the best luck with it. It fits snugly in with 4064 and 4895 for burn rate. While mine is a 30-06, I have a friend with a 308 who also uses Varget almost exclusively. We both use 168 BTHP's for our regular match loads, and I use Barnes 175 Match Burners for my longer range match loads which closely replicates the original match loadings. I have also used 190 BTHP with the slower burning H4350 with very good success out to 800 meters, but the 175's do just fine out at that distance as well. H4350 is generally too slow with the lighter bullets in 308 especially.

Definitely recommend Varget for the Garand!
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Also great thoughts. I've used Varget so far this year with good results once the powder charge is raised to reliably cycle the action. Also used H4895 with good results.
 
morggun said:
Vargat will work of course, but you are damaging your rifle with extended usage.
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Please explain, as I would like some more info about this. I have never heard this before and the NRA/CMP competitors using Varget would disagree. This is especially since Varget is the slowest burning of the three powders mentioned here.
 
Sharps45-70 said:
Please explain, as I would like some more info about this. I have never heard this before and the NRA/CMP competitors using Varget would disagree. This is especially since Varget is the slowest burning of the three powders mentioned here.
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This is something I know very little about as I am not a reloader and don’t own a garand but I think the idea is slow is bad as the port pressures may be higher
 
The M1 is a sealed system long stroke
if you use the wrong powder Pressure at the gas port is higher the the Oprod travels faster and hits the back of the receiver harder bending or damaging parts
the same thing happens if you try to hot rod the M1 and push a bullet faster than it was designed for

Imr 4895 powders is what it was designed for H 4895 is also very close

Type Bullet Weight Muzzle Velocity Velocity at 53' / 16m Velocity at 78' / 24m Muzzle Energy
Grains Grams fps m/s fps m/s fps m/s foot-pounds
.30-06 150.0 9.72 2700 823 2655 809 2640 805 2429
.30 M1 174.5 11.3 2647 807 2620 799 2600 792 2675
recommended Max

you can go a bit slower and a take it easy on a 80 year old rifle....... the deer or the paper target will not know if it is going 100fps slower
all you need to it to function 100% and shoot small groups

But if you go faster things start to break / bend


the M1 Garand Gas port is app 1 in from the end of the barrel, and the only way to bleed off barrel pressure is for the bullet to leave the barrel

You can also start break / bend parts if you have a old or weak spring

Proper length is 19 3/4 to 20 1/4" when new.
 
Last edited:
just having some fun said:
The M1 is a sealed system long stroke
if you use the wrong powder Pressure at the gas port is higher the the Oprod travels faster and hits the back of the receiver harder bending or damaging parts
the same thing happens if you try to hot rod the M1 and push a bullet faster than it was designed for

Imr 4895 powders is what it was designed for H 4895 is also very close

Type Bullet Weight Muzzle Velocity Velocity at 53' / 16m Velocity at 78' / 24m Muzzle Energy
Grains Grams fps m/s fps m/s fps m/s foot-pounds
.30-06 150.0 9.72 2700 823 2655 809 2640 805 2429
.30 M1 174.5 11.3 2647 807 2620 799 2600 792 2675
recommended Max

you can go a bit slower and a take it easy on a 80 year old rifle....... the deer or the paper target will not know if it is going 100fps slower
all you need to it to function 100% and shoot small groups

But if you go faster things start to break / bend


the M1 Garand Gas port is app 1 in from the end of the barrel, and the only way to bleed off barrel pressure is for the bullet to leave the barrel

You can also start break / bend parts if you have a old or weak spring

Proper length is 19 3/4 to 20 1/4" when new.
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This is absolutely the biggest concern with M1's! Make sure the powder is something in the proper range.
 
Chatrbaz84 said:
I think is too much for my M1 garand 308 because shoot the case behind me 8 meters away and make mark on the case
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It's not a powder charge problem! It's an ejector problem. Excessive ejector spring tension combined with high velocity of M1 308 bolt cause excessive ejection as you stated.

My 308 M1 had this issue, just clip the ejector spring a little shorter and re-shoot if the problem continue just re-cut a little more and try again and so on until brass are just couple of feet away....usually between 1 and 2 o clock.

The first brass will be nearer (very close to you) and as the magazine empty (and spring tension drop) the last ones will be a little farther away

You might want a spare spring before you do so.....

My 2 cents

Or you may also consider an adjustable gas plug

Larry
 
In a m1 Garand it is common for the op rod Hump to hit Brass as Brass leaves the rifle.
some rifles will and some won't... some will hit sometimes and sometimes won't
Some rifles will shoot brass forward and some will shoot it to the side.
as long as brass leaves the rifle, I consider it good

So it is very hard to use ejection pattern to tune it
 
Once I shoot iron sight at 200m as long as the rifle works well with low powder pressure , smooth , no short stroke and no long stroke I am good to go.
 
Denmark and Italy believe made M1 Garands in 308 for issue to their military. I would asume that those rifles were constructed to function safely with NATO 308 ammunition.
 
big bear said:
Denmark and Italy believe made M1 Garands in 308 for issue to their military. I would asume that those rifles were constructed to function safely with NATO 308 ammunition.
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I wouldn't use nato spec'd ammo, as it is likely to be hotter than the M1 likes it. Consider that while the M1 can probably handle the pressures, those countries employing those rifles in their armed services were not generally concerned with wearing them out, prematurely or otherwise.

Your rifle, but I'd recommend hand loading for it.
My go-to load is 40.5 to 41.0 grains of H4895 / IMR4895 with a Win. or CCI large rifle primer on a 147 or 155 grain bullet, trimmed to length and full length sized after every firing.
 
beltfed said:
I wouldn't use nato spec'd ammo, as it is likely to be hotter than the M1 likes it. Consider that while the M1 can probably handle the pressures, those countries employing those rifles in their armed services were not generally concerned with wearing them out, prematurely or otherwise.

Your rifle, but I'd recommend hand loading for it.
My go-to load is 40.5 to 41.0 grains of H4895 / IMR4895 with a Win. or CCI large rifle primer on a 147 or 155 grain bullet, trimmed to length and full length sized after every firing.
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THANKS for the tip, even an old dog can learn something new. I was using a middle of
the Road load with Vihtivouri N135 and 155gr bullets and getting great accuracy. Guess I'll go back to that.
Oh yeah was that commercial brass or military (Lake City ,old DA,) brass you are using with that load?
 
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