Recommendations for a 5.56 NATO or .223 Wylde bolt action rifle?

Mystic Precision said:
Doesn't the PGW rail come off the action? I thought it was bolted on????

Not understanding why you would get a 20 MOA rail instead of a 0 MOA rail if you do not want to shim the scope in anyway?

Really confused why you would want to mount the 20 MOA rail backwards. I doubt the barrel is that far out of whack from PGW....?????

Or better yet, get a set of Burris rings with inserts and just set the scope zero where you want it....with the factory rail..... ?????

I am sure you have sorted things out by now and enjoying a very nice rifle.

Jerry

PS... are you stacking the rails?????
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I wanted to replace the 25 MOA with a 0 MOA rail -- but cannot because they (are not bolted, but) are proprietary (holing). Otherwise, I would have simply put on a 0 MOA Remington 700 short rail system and been on my merry way.

The $1,000+ scope (which I cannot seem to remove from the $300+ 0 MOA Spuhr scope mount) is at mechanical optical bottom and shooting approximately 8.5 MOA or 2.5 MRAD high from my scope center at a 100 yard distance.

20 MOA seems to be a fairly standard riser for rails. Putting it on backwards adds approximately 1/3" height from barrel center and 2.5 ounces of weight and provides a 5 MOA rise (instead of 25 MOA). It's really not that bad of a compromise. The 20 MOA rail system to the door was approximately $75 Canadian. Getting a new Vortex PST GEN2, $1,200+ (scope mounts).

Overall, I think the system is fantastic and I can re-purpose the rail riser in the future.

The only negative aspect -- the manufacturer saying that a 25 MOA canted rail system on a 5.56 NATO rifle is needed (and not over engineered), and that a worthy scope should be able to adjust to the unwanted cant. That (as a customer of a $3,000 rifle), has me wanting to dig up my scope receipt.

Some would argue that the IOR scopes are outstanding! Although, I would not put this IOR scope on a 5.56, just as I would not put a 25 MOA rail on it either...
http://www.valdada.com/12-52x56-40mm-sfp-terminator-tactical-moa-moa-xtreme-x1-illum/
 
billbikes61 said:
I picked up a nice Mossberg MVP Varmit just in case all this Lib. nonsense cost me my WK. Works smooth, Boyds stock, ar style mags. and accurate even with my eyes.
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Thank you for the heads up! The Mossberg MVP Varmit reviews well and is very economical.

Just finished cutting some sponge out of my Pelican rifle case and the PGW rifle fits well in the adjustment. Will probably throw the standard case it came in, out, because the barrel almost put a complete hole through it during shipping and I have two other undamaged cases of simpler size (which is about 1/3" too small due to the 20 MOA riser).

While it is regretful that my $1,275 USD IOR 2.5-10x42 30mm MIL/MIL Tact FFP MP-8 Dot Illum Reticule scope (per International Import Certification issued on 2012/12/05) is not good enough for this rifle without modification -- I do see that its rail system is useful at 800 meters/yards (as I see in my notes, that distance would require approximately 11.3 MRAD / 36.5 MOA elevation with my 16+3/4" AR barrel).
 
Mystic Precision said:
Love to see pictures of the base/ring scope set up.

I am still really confused...

Jerry
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I'm assuming he's put a 20 moa pic riser rail (like you'd put a flat top AR upper to add 20 moa of cant) on backwards so as to negate the most of the 25 moa of the cant in the rifle's rail? To the OP, honestly, I'm kinda surprised that your scope won't zero at 100 but if that's the case, why not get PGW to make you a 0 moa rail?
 
DT741 said:
Ruger American Ranch. You can get the version that takes AR magazines (althought very overpriced in Canada) or the flush magazine version. Shoots very well
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Sorry to hijack. But has anyone look into the Mossberg MVP scout in 556? What are the differences with thew Ruger American vs mossberg MVP? Many thanks
 
The Ruger is a more compact package overall. That has a lot of appeal by itself.

I chose the Ruger because it was available at the time. I would love to compare them side by side.
 
DT741 said:
The Ruger is a more compact package overall. That has a lot of appeal by itself.

I chose the Ruger because it was available at the time. I would love to compare them side by side.
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The Mossberg MVP Scout in 556 was much better reviewed, but to find one for sale in Canada... good luck :)

The Ruger reviews said that it was a hit and miss adventure. You either really loved the Ruger rifle and completely despised it.

Not a single negative word could be found against the Mossberg :)
 
rugbydave said:
I'm assuming he's put a 20 moa pic riser rail (like you'd put a flat top AR upper to add 20 moa of cant) on backwards so as to negate the most of the 25 moa of the cant in the rifle's rail? To the OP, honestly, I'm kinda surprised that your scope won't zero at 100 but if that's the case, why not get PGW to make you a 0 moa rail?
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Yeah, I am surprised as well. However, I do remember taking the AR with a 0 MOA mount out to 800 meters (and being surprised that I could actually hit a figure 11 from there). So I sincerely believe that the elevation mechanical center and optical center are intentionally off for longer distance, being developed prior to the MOA raiser Picatinny rails being commonly available.

One of my friends says he has no issues zeroing with a Vortex PST GEN2 on a 20 MOA mount.

$hit happens...

PGW said they would need to charge a significant sum to custom create a 0 MOA rail. This statement supports my belief that the rail design was repurposed from their really cool Timberwolf. Too bad they did not standardize on a Remington 700 Short mounting system (which may lower production costs, because their is likely competition for Remington 700 Short mount rail systems). Perhaps that design decision was based on the cartridges that they want to support?
 
Beaver said:
Yeah, I am surprised as well. However, I do remember taking the AR with a 0 MOA mount out to 800 meters (and being surprised that I could actually hit a figure 11 from there). So I sincerely believe that the elevation mechanical center and optical center are intentionally off for longer distance, being developed prior to the MOA raiser Picatinny rails being commonly available.

One of my friends says he has no issues zeroing with a Vortex PST GEN2 on a 20 MOA mount.

$hit happens...

PGW said they would need to charge a significant sum to custom create a 0 MOA rail. This statement supports my belief that the rail design was repurposed from their really cool Timberwolf. Too bad they did not standardize on a Remington 700 Short mounting system (which may lower production costs, because their is likely competition for Remington 700 Short mount rail systems). Perhaps that design decision was based on the cartridges that they want to support?
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The 700 rail is actually a stepped design as the rear receiver ring is lower than the front. Most 700 footprint designs just use the same trigger setup and basic stock inlet, not necessarily the contours or dimensions of the rest of the action.

Some custom actions either allow you to order a specific cant or you can go with a system with bolt on rails like a Zermatt/Bighorn TL3. I'm not familiar with the PGW action you have, but if it's a bolt on rail, any competent gunsmith should be able to make you a 0 MOA Picatinny.

I've got a 30 MOA rail on my 22lr CZ 455 VPT with an old 30 mm Bushnell 4.5-30x50 Elite Tactical and it's zeroed for 50 yards with no problem. Personally, every PRS match or trainer rifle I've had, had or has a 20 MOA rail on it and I've never had a single issue with zeroing at 100 yards with Nightforce, Bushnell, or Minox.
 
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Beaver said:
The Mossberg MVP Scout in 556 was much better reviewed, but to find one for sale in Canada... good luck :)

The Ruger reviews said that it was a hit and miss adventure. You either really loved the Ruger rifle and completely despised it.

Not a single negative word could be found against the Mossberg :)
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Do you intend to compete in PRS? I would say neither of these rifles are ideal for that purpose.
 
Alpheus said:
Nope, the Timberwolf and Coyote have integral picatinny scope rails.

Any chance you could post a photo of your set up?
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Putting a 20 MOA rail on backwards resolved the zeroing issue. I don't think one would even notice the raise if it were not pointed out. However, the very small increment in total height ensured that the firearm with scope would not fit in the box that the firearm came in (by approximately 1/3"). I don't think the scope is mechanically centered (by design). I vaguely remember taking an AR out to the 800 meter mount and being surprised that I could still hit a figure 11.

After putting the 20 MOA rail on backwards, I only have about 7 MRAD from bottom (and probably 17 MRAD from the top). Working from memory, so the numbers may not be completely right, but I am fairly certain they are in the ballpark.
 
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