Buell and Cooper

Rob

Rob

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I think Eric Buell and Jeff Cooper, superficially in different disciplines, were actually two peas in a pod: one in motorcycle engineering (Buell's inventions include a twin spar hollow aluminum frame to house fuel, a hollow swing arm to house oil, and an underslung truck exhaust pipe...production ceased in 2009) and the other in firearms design (Cooper's Scout Rifle...still limping along in various manufacturers' versions as a very limited sales success.)

Both Buell and Cooper came up with innovative designs to solve problems that never really existed.

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If it's a slow day for anybody, try your Google-fu at determining who first thought up the Horus reticle, and by extension, all of our modern Christmas tree reticles.

As I recall, they came on the scene to a rough ride and were considered solutions to nonexistent problems by some.
 
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FLHTCUI said:
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder....
Both examples are interesting.
Almost bought one back when they had gun shows in Coquitlam.
Rob
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Sorry, but "Beauty is (not just) in the eye of the beholder"...its a democratic idea...too bad its not true...having recently retired after decades of teaching university level visual art, art/design history and theory, I am well aware that there are many rules to achieving good design (i.e. "beauty'), one of the the foremost being, "less is more" (also known as "keep it simple.")
 
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Owned two Buells over my riding career and loved them No issues Not the fastest by far, but "cool" and "different" . Never owned a "scout " rifle but shot a few . Now I ride the sofa and mostly shoot the #### .
 
My Buell (above top photo) had a full race kit...very loud, and went about as fast as a Buell can go...the KTM SD 990 (photo below the Buell) easily outperformed the Buell on every level...and the 2011 Triumph Speed Triple 1050 (bottom two photos) outperforms them both by a wide margin. Its the only bike I have now. Triumph rules.

Circling back to guns....

I've owned and hunted with plenty of lightweight carbines but never used an actual "Scout Rifle". I did try various forward mounted LER scout scopes on milsurps, but was never happy with those set ups.
 
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Almost every product on the market today was introduced to solve one particular problem, from the perspective of the maker of said product. That problem was "How do I cash in on the market that exists for ######?" To the guy who is watching a competitor generate sales unchallenged, that is a very real problem.

And stating that "beauty" is some hard-edged quantifiable property that stems strictly from good design is to ignore the meaning of the word. Beauty is the combination of qualities that brings delight to the senses; perhaps you can categorically say that something is or isn't beautiful to some people or even to the majority of people, but please don't tell me that something I consider beautiful isn't beautiful merely because that's what the textbook says.
 
Rob said:
Sorry, but "Beauty is (not just) in the eye of the beholder"...its a democratic idea...too bad its not true...having recently retired after decades of teaching university level visual art, art/design history and theory, I am well aware that there are many rules to achieving good design (i.e. "beauty'), one of the the foremost being, "less is more" (also known as "keep it simple.")
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Yes, there are many rules of good design but beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and can't be anywhere else
 
Rob said:
Sorry, but "Beauty is (not just) in the eye of the beholder"...its a democratic idea...too bad its not true...having recently retired after decades of teaching university level visual art, art/design history and theory, I am well aware that there are many rules to achieving good design (i.e. "beauty'), one of the the foremost being, "less is more" (also known as "keep it simple.")
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I'd need a visual art teacher to tell me what I should think is beautiful about as much as I'd need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Rugers' Gunsite Scout has been a resounding success since its intro in 2012 and I fully expect it will only grow in popularity here in Canada due to the criminal act of May 1st 2020.
 
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Sun_and_Steel_77 said:
I'd need a visual art teacher to tell me what I should think is beautiful about as much as I'd need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows.

Rugers' Gunsite Scout has been a resounding success since its intro in 2012 and I fully expect it will only grow in popularity here in Canada due to the criminal act of May 1st 2020.
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Don't you think the Ruger is a bit on the heavy side? The ones that I have picked up felt very heavy compared to lightweight hunting carbines. What exactly is its intended purpose?
 
porpoise said:
Yes, there are many rules of good design but beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and can't be anywhere else
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I don't want to get drawn into arguments about Aesthetics (the academic study of beauty.) There must be other forums (as there are entire university degree programs) for that sort of thing. Sorry I brought it up. ...Here's a picture of a "beautiful" rifle by Dorleac (https://www.dorleac-dorleac.com/?lang=en), one of the best custom builders outside North America:

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I've owned both a Buell and a Ruger gsr.
The Buell was a 1996 S2T, and it was a real piece of crap. I thought it would be the best of both worlds, but in reality it was the worst. It didn't handle as good as the japanese sport bikes, wasn't even close to as fast, and the seat height was way too high. The only thing it did good was wheelie and stop......
The ruger gsr was similar. It was heavier than an average hunting rifle, wasn't as accurate, and didn't carry as nice.
I suppose they both did the trick, but either was a jack of all trades and master of none in my opinion.
 
elKrusto said:
I've owned both a Buell and a Ruger gsr.
The Buell was a 1996 S2T, and it was a real piece of crap. I thought it would be the best of both worlds, but in reality it was the worst. It didn't handle as good as the japanese sport bikes, wasn't even close to as fast, and the seat height was way too high. The only thing it did good was wheelie and stop......
The ruger gsr was similar. It was heavier than an average hunting rifle, wasn't as accurate, and didn't carry as nice.
I suppose they both did the trick, but either was a jack of all trades and master of none in my opinion.
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A friend in Vancouver still rides a Buell S2T that he bought new in the mid 90's...he seems to have some sort of love-hate relationship with it...hates the Harley motor...had all kinds of trouble with the bags...but he's sticking with it (even got Eric Buell to sign it!) ...But the Buell has only 76 HP? Good grief. My only slightly warmed up Triumph triple has nearly twice that! And its barely a sports bike.

Your take on the Ruger corresponds to my thinking, even though I have never fired one. They seem heavy and awkward. Hardly Cooper's ideal.
 
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The Ruger gsr, like all other Ruger rifles I've ever had, was overly heavy. It was built like a tank. I just couldn't find a use for it so away it went.
I have had GPz's, Katana's, a few japanese cruisers, and 9 other different Harley's over the past 37 years, and of all the bikes I've owned, the Buell was the worst one. I'm down to one bike now, a 2001 dyna fxdxt (t-sport), looks like Jax bike off SOA, and it's the last bike I'll ever own. Took me that long to get it right.
 
I've ridden 2 Buell Lightnings and found them lacking as far as ergos go, not to mention the antiquated Harley mill installed in the buggers. Kinda like owning most of the factory
boat offerings over the years, which be just money holes sittin' in the water & end up as lawn ornaments on far too many folks properties.

As fer the Steyr Scout, it's just another over hyped unit that while of good quality, does not fit many folks as a nice huntin' rifle. I passed on the Cooper concept rifles.

I'm a fan of the old Weaver post/cross hair reticle scopes as well as newer units with the G4 setup. They be nice fer me older peepers.

Done sold me Royal Enfield Classic 500 back in March and will be grabbing a new Honda CB 300R this winter when the pre-spring sales come in.
5 years of serene riding pleasure I've had with this bike for just putting round the backroads.
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