1858 vs 1860...

[kodiakjack]

So I’ve been thinking of tip toeing my way into black powder. I’d like to start with a revolver.

The two I’m stuck on are the 1858 army and the 1860 army. (Reproductions obviously) I can’t think of any better looking pistols. (But I’m open to suggestions) I’ll admit, I’m drawn by looks alone. So I’d like opinions more so on function, use, accuracy, etc.

The 58’s octagon barrel is classy, and I like the clean lines under the barrel.

The 60’s got attractive curves and a certain flow to it. Of all the models, it seems to have been designed with the most style in mind.


Anyway, eager to hear your thoughts.

 

[lone ranger]

I prefer Top Strap revolvers myself. pic 1 or 2 for sure.
I too just got back to Cap N ball shooting. I really missed it.

I enjoy the reloading, the smoke,..the sound and the look and feel of them.
I'm very happy with my New army by pieta.
while in cowboy shooting,..I had several different copies, and found the New model army to be the most accurate and user friendly.
Having a steel fame for me, is a Must !

had this little 36cal. not much of a gun & not much accuracy. Brass frame. weak. Loose wedge as well.

I stretched this one out using Hot loads..brass frame.

I liked this one....very long barrel. should have kept it.

had this one in 36cal. I liked it but no long distance shots from this.

my present gun. rem new army 44 Got it From Wolverine. Great prices !

 

[flintyboom]

The 1858 will be more accurate and hold up better to stout loads, but the 1860 is fast, smooth and ###y. One of, if not the, best handling revolvers ever made. Points like the hand of God.

 

[Alex McKr]

Either revolver choice has its strengths and weaknesses. If possible, try to handle and especially shoot... samples of both. That will give you a better idea which one suits your preferences, best.
One caveat: Stay away from brass-framed revolvers. The so-called "Reb", brass revolvers may look slick...but they are far weaker than their all-steel counterparts. Frames are prone to stretching, especially when fed a diet of stiff loads. This will soon render the revolver unfit to fire and potentially dangerous to use.
A good info source that may help, is duelist1954. Host Mike Beliveau, is the Black Powder Editor of "Guns of the Old West" magazine. There is a wealth of information regarding cap and ball revolvers, on his site. Including how to select a first C & B revolver. I most highly recommend it. Another good source: Blackie Thomas. Good info site.

 

[kodiakjack]

The 1858 will be more accurate and hold up better to stout loads, but the 1860 is fast, smooth and ###y. One of, if not the, best handling revolvers ever made. Points like the hand of God.

Lol. Nicely said.

I just keep swinging back and forth.

So the 60 handles the nicest, eh? That’s probably more pertinent than accuracy at stout load ability. It’s not like I’m hunting with it or anything.

 

[kodiakjack]

Alex and Lone Ranger, thanks for the tips/leads.

Seems like there’s a consensus on the brass frames.

 

[chasseur]

I had at one time one of the pietta Lemat navy replicas and it was a fun gun to play with,9 shot 44cal and a one shot 20 gauge.If I was going to get into BP handguns again I d buy another.And if you want to do the cavalry thing they sell a cavalry model lemat as well.Old JEB Stuart carried one

 

[bush1]

I recently picked up my first cap & ball. A Pietta 1851 Navy in .36 as that was the original caliber. That got me hooked and am now in the same position as the OP, next one will be a 1858 or a 1860. Will probably go .44 but if I was smart, I’d stick to .36 as I already have everything I need now.

 

[fingers284]

Historically speaking..... If your planning to do the Union Army "cavalry, horseback" thingy then the 1858 Rem is the choice. The 1858 was issued to cavalry units because of the "reloading while mounted" differences of the two choices. The Colts had to have the wedge removed, barrel pulled off and another cylinder could be slid on the shaft...lots of opportunity to loose/drop those separate parts at a gallop but with the Rem they just dropped the lever, slid the pin out to the stop and dropped another cylinder onto the frame...much easier to reload on a horse. Every Cavalry trooper issued a Rem was issued two cylinders.

Foot soldiers/officers were issued the Colts because if they dropped a piece, concievably they just bent over and picked it up.

 

[lone ranger]

The New Model Army does have a bit smaller Grip handle. when I researched it, here is what it said- " A lot of the soldiers were Young boys and they had small hands,..there for they made the grip smaller". The info came from a reliable source...but I'm still not sure I believe it.

Any one know, or have a different story ?


Loading & accuracy- I find that your powder charge can really change your accuracy.
I get the best results with 30g.
Horrible with 20g.......better with 25,....best with 30g....then I tried 35g , but found I was just wasting powder & the accuracy dropped a bit.

I also found that Hornady balls give me Tach Driver accuracy. I did NOT get the same grouping with my buddies Home cast 454 balls. Far from it.

 

[lone ranger]

I recently picked up my first cap & ball. A Pietta 1851 Navy in .36 as that was the original caliber. That got me hooked and am now in the same position as the OP, next one will be a 1858 or a 1860. Will probably go .44 but if I was smart, I’d stick to .36 as I already have everything I need now.

Yes,..the 36 is period correct, and fun to shoot. Nothing wrong with it at all.
I loaded mine to the max trying to do longer shots. I realized that wasnt going to work, and moved up to the 44.
In hind sight, I should have kept the 36. It was accurate and a pleasure to shoot.

 

[Alex McKr]

bush1: As you likely already know, .36 caliber Remington revolvers are available, too. Which makes it a whole lot simpler for accessories, etc. So if you'd like to go with a Remington, there's no reason not to. Getting acquainted with the various quirks of either revolver make is half the fun, anyway.
Still... the .44 in either brand is just as easy to shoot. Aside from ball diameter/powder charge, etc., loading procedure etc., is identical.
Where the .44 really shines, is in its ability to be readily converted into a cartridge-firing revolver. By means of a conversion cylinder. Thereby turning the percussion arm into a .45 Colt cartridge revolver. Nominal bore diameter for the .44 c&b is really .45 caliber....so the transition is an easy one. The .36 can be converted to cartridge firing too. It is just a bit fussier with bullet diameter. Food for thought.
As Fingers284 correctly pointed out, the Remington revolver is more user-friendly, than the Colt. Something to consider. The Remington also has other advantages. But....I don't wish to sway your opinion to one brand, versus the other. The choice is ultimately yours....based on your preferences. As already mentioned...either revolver(Colt/Remington) has its strengths and weaknesses.
This also holds true for brand name. Some prefer Uberti. Others: Pietta. Either has its share of admirers. That is likely the hardest part, with the variety of brands and models available, now.

 

[lone ranger]

Either revolver choice has its strengths and weaknesses. If possible, try to handle and especially shoot... samples of both. That will give you a better idea which one suits your preferences, best.
One caveat: Stay away from brass-framed revolvers. The so-called "Reb", brass revolvers may look slick...but they are far weaker than their all-steel counterparts. Frames are prone to stretching, especially when fed a diet of stiff loads. This will soon render the revolver unfit to fire and potentially dangerous to use.
A good info source that may help, is duelist1954. Host Mike Beliveau, is the Black Powder Editor of "Guns of the Old West" magazine. There is a wealth of information regarding cap and ball revolvers, on his site. Including how to select a first C & B revolver. I most highly recommend it. Another good source: Blackie Thomas. Good info site.

wow thanks for the info. I found Duelist making the Dave Tutt shot
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7gGgHs2lPU&list=LLRWdmFZNXRlc5M4CHkJc3dw&index=2&t=14s

 

[chasseur]

Here s a pic of one of Quantrills Raiders George Maddox .As you can see in the pic the common practice with the guerrillas was to carry multiple handguns ,George has four on him.This gave them lots of firepower in a fight and back up if something happened to one of the guns for some reason
.George also seems to prefer remingtons

 

[Alex McKr]

lone ranger:Neat video, eh? Really puts into perspective how good a shot Wild Bill really was. I found Mike's site to be an invaluable source for information. Regardless of shooter experience. The man is a treasure trove of knowledge. Another good site: capandball. More on the historical side ....but still very useful.
Even after all these years...I still learn something new...or a new approach..when watching Mike Beliveau in action. Highly recommended site.

 

[Alex McKr]

lone ranger:Quick question... just for curiosity's sake. Have you checked the barrel throat diameter of your Remington? That is likely the secret to your accuracy performance differences between the swaged Hornady ball, versus home cast. That info may give you better insight into the perfect diameter ball for your particular revolver. Chamber throat diameter is useful to know....but I've found that chamber throat and barrel throat dimensions don't always match. This can and does affect accuracy....sometimes dramatically, as you discovered. Hope this info is useful.

Al

 

[lone ranger]

Thanks Alex, I will look into it.

 

[Tudenom]

The Colt Army clone front sites are calibrated for long distance so you might want to replace the front site with a taller one. There aren’t any out of the box solutions, so you either need to get a gun smith to mill in a dovetail or you can make your own if you are handy with a file.

 

[Brutus]

I find it hard to believe any horse mounted soldier would risk swapping out his precious revolver cylinders of any design while in the heat of smoky battle upon his moving horse.

 

[Brutus]

Rogers and Spencer has the best grip feel with the strength of a full fixed frame. It also sheds fired caps with ease for a more trouble free firing sequence.
It's one and only Achilles heal that bit of stress on grip frame screws upon disassembly or reassembly. It's too easy to cross thread the first one. A zip tie really helps here.Pedersol builds a replica right now.