Just found out about an unsafe practice I have done 100s of times

coyoteking

coyoteking

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Apparently using a Shellholder in place of the supplied collets and o-ring that comes with the inertia puller can be dangerous. This is something I’ve done many times while pulling bullets on pistol ammo, (I use an RCBS collet puller for rifle ammo) but had no idea it could potentially cause a detonation.

I won’t post the link here, it’s on another firearms forum and I don’t want to break any forum rules here, but google will turn up what you need to see. The short version is a father was pulling bullets in his garage with 2 young sons nearby when he had the detonation. He eventually found some of the pieces and the bullet in the attic. This happened a few years ago. There are reports of it happening to others as well.

With all the reloading related reading I do I’m not sure how this one slipped past me. Glad I stumbled on this and thought I’d pass it on to anyone here that might be interested.
 
Pretty sure I found the post you are talking about and call BS.
IF the round went off when he whacked the puller (now I am assuming it was on a table or the floor meaning downward) and DIDN'T destroy the body of the puller just cracked the cap HOW did the bullet wind up through the gyprock in the ceiling?
He shows a picture of the primer off centre in the holder. I would hate to have holders that don't align my primer holes with the hole in the centre of the holder. It would make it a PITA trying to prime cases.
My question is why would anyone not use a tool as it was designed when dealing with things that go boom?
 
Daver_II said:
yup. absolute BS,

what exactly could go flying when it is completely unsupported?
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+1 on the bs.

i have the rcbs collet puller and the hammer but have done the shellholder in the inertia hammer thing before that and never had an issue, just make sure you have a good fitting shell holder and the brass can not slide off when in the hammer.
 
I haven't seen the post and have no idea what you're talking about, but that is 100% nonsense.

I'm making the same assumption here that the garage is below the attic and buddy was hammering downwards. There's absolutely no way an uncontained cartridge of any type develops enough energy to go through drywall into an attic. It's impossible. Go put a loaded round in front of a blowtorch and put a cardboard box around it. The bullet will not penetrate the box. The bullet will start to move as soon as the force behind it overcomes the brass tension on it. That's the same amount of force it takes to seat the bullet. That's not very much force.

Anyone who did stupid things when they were a kid should know this. If you cook off a cartridge, nothing cool happens because the bullet pops out as soon as the force behind it overcomes the brass tension. You need to pull the bullet and fold the case neck closed to up the pressure.

There's also no way you set off a primer by hammering it with an inertia puller. The force is going the other way.

And why are your kids there when you're hammering on a puller? Am I the only one that does it where it's loud AF? I wear plugs the odd time I have to use an inertia puller. Am I an idiot and there's some way of doing it quietly?
 
I have pulled quite a few bullets with the inertia puller, using a shellholder with nary any issues at all.
I call BS on the bullet flying anywhere as well. Does not happen. Dave.
 
LolaPP said:
I haven't seen the post and have no idea what you're talking about, but that is 100% nonsense.

I'm making the same assumption here that the garage is below the attic and buddy was hammering downwards. There's absolutely no way an uncontained cartridge of any type develops enough energy to go through drywall into an attic. It's impossible. Go put a loaded round in front of a blowtorch and put a cardboard box around it. The bullet will not penetrate the box. The bullet will start to move as soon as the force behind it overcomes the brass tension on it. That's the same amount of force it takes to seat the bullet. That's not very much force.

Anyone who did stupid things when they were a kid should know this. If you cook off a cartridge, nothing cool happens because the bullet pops out as soon as the force behind it overcomes the brass tension. You need to pull the bullet and fold the case neck closed to up the pressure.

There's also no way you set off a primer by hammering it with an inertia puller. The force is going the other way.

And why are your kids there when you're hammering on a puller? Am I the only one that does it where it's loud AF? I wear plugs the odd time I have to use an inertia puller. Am I an idiot and there's some way of doing it quietly?
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Not exactly always the case. I had a 9mm round cook off on me rather spontaneously once. Had quite a bit more pop to it than you might think.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...RNING-Spontaneous-Combustion-(of-a-9mm-round)

Forgive the dramatic flare. I was younger and more melodramatic back then lol.
 
I believe this is the post the OP is referring to

I had an accident using a shell-holder instead of the supplied collet. The accident almost cost me my kids. Please don't do this. It SIGNIFICANTLY increases the risk of discharging the round in the puller.

First Post

I was in the garage with my boys waiting for the school bus to pick them up for their summer swimming program and I was pulling some 45ACP with a Frankford Arsenal Inertial Bullet Puller (hammer type) and I had primer detonation that set off the round.

The scariest part of this deal was that my boys were standing right next to me when it happened. When the round went off, they scattered. And to be quite honest, I ran too.

I quickly checked my boys who were uninjured (thank God), but understandably shaken and scared.

After spending some time calming them down, I started trying to piece together what happened.

I have no idea what caused this. I have had this pullet for about 3 years and have used regularly without a problem.

The round was as I said a 45ACP (unknown brass because I can't find it) loaded with a 200gr Hornady Combat/target SWC, 5.5gr of W231, and a CCI LP primer.

The round went off on about the third blow.

I found the pieces of the Intertial Puller and the only damage is a large crack in the top locking collar as seen below:



And here is the indentation made by it when it struck the ceiling of my garage:



I still have not found the collet that was holding the base of the brass, or the brass itself. I am SURE it didn't "grenade" as the hammer portion of the tool is undamaged and none of us received any injuries.

Now, what did I learn from this? I will NEVER use an inertial puller again. I am a safe reloader and when my boys are helping me, I am extra safe. I am at a loss for what happened in this case. If anyone has any ideas, let me know.

I need some coffee ....


Second Post

Some more pieces of the puzzle. I spend almost an hour looking in my garage after coming home from work and FINALLY found the bullet, shell casing and the collet.

And what I found really frightened me more. The case did indeed "grenade" as it left the inertial puller. And I found the bullet in the ATTIC of my garage. I found a small hole where it passed thru the sheetrock, pulled out the ladder and found it laying in the insulation.

Apparently my sons were in serious danger when this occured, fortunately all these pieces were found in the opposite direction from where they were standing.



Here is a look at the primer ... It has a horseshoe shaped crease in it. I have no idea what may have caused it.




Third Post

Ok, I think I solved this mystery ...

First of all, I still think I had a primer that was not fully seated.

And second of all I created an unsafe set-up by not using the proper equipment. Instead of using the collet supplied with the puller, I was using an RCBS shell holder (proper size for the caliber). THis is a common practice that others have used and I myself have used it for several years. The collet supplied has three pieces to it that are held together with a rubber band thingie ... it can be a real pain at times.



When it is fitted correctly into the puller, it grabs the bullet by the rim, and leaves lots of room around the primer pocket and as you can see below, there is little chance of accidental firing of the primer even if it is seated high.



The RCBS shell holder holds the case by the rim as well, BUT it severly reduces the free space around the primer pocket ...



... and when it is placed in the puller it is possible for the primer to shift enough to get the primer underneath the lip of the shell holder.



So, in short this accident was my fault, not the equipment's.

There are a lot of "shortcuts" out there in the reloading world, and this is one that is dangerous and should not be practiced.

I learned a valuable lesson ... and I hope someone learns from my mistake. Please be safe out there.​
 
Another bit of Gun Folklore that surfaces repeatedly. I follow that practice and will continue to do so. I always wear safety glasses when reloading, just because mistakes (my fault) can be made and sometimes stuff just happens.

I also shot my Savage Muzzleloader with smokeless even after pics of a blown gun and a hand with a bobo made the rounds. I don't wear a space suit when I am casting.

Then there's the "dangerous" Carcano or <insert gun type here> with a pic of a toothless hillbilly with a damaged hand that was used to "prove" it was dangerous and should not be shot. The same pic appeared on a fireworks site to prove that fireworks are dangerous. Picture re-use is so common............
 
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I'm going to disagree with all the folks that are calling BS that the shell holder, brass and bullet could become projectiles.
I have used a hammer puller for 40 yrs without a problem but have read other antidotes over the years of primers detonating from the anvil igniting the priming compound from the inertia shock.

Im not going to dispute the claim that the bullet was in the ceiling drywall because I think it could happen... the possibility I see is that the barrel of the hammer contains enough of the charge pressure without bursting and basically becomes the "barrel of the gun" so to speak. A .45 doesn't leave a lot of "outside diameter" for gas expansion to dissipate without going through the top. The hammer barrel , in essence becomes a small cannon with only one avenue of escape for the gas and the contents are expelled up & out .
 
fingers284 said:
I'm going to disagree with all the folks that are calling BS that the shell holder, brass and bullet could become projectiles.
I have used a hammer puller for 40 yrs without a problem but have read other antidotes over the years of primers detonating from the anvil igniting the priming compound from the inertia shock.

Im not going to dispute the claim that the bullet was in the ceiling drywall because I think it could happen... the possibility I see is that the barrel of the hammer contains enough of the charge pressure without bursting and basically becomes the "barrel of the gun" so to speak. A .45 doesn't leave a lot of "outside diameter" for gas expansion to dissipate without going through the top. The hammer barrel , in essence becomes a small cannon with only one avenue of escape for the gas and the contents are expelled up & out .
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Maybe I’m confused then... can you dumb it down for me? How would a cartridge that detonates on hammer impact (bullet pointing straight down) some how go the opposite direction from where the detonation would send it, going the opposite direction through the expanding gasses, brass, base, and collet straight up to the ceiling with enough Forde to pierce the drywall?

I mean, for sure, I can imagine a round detonating for some rare reason... I can even imaging it blowing the hammer apart and sending bits of brass and lexan up at the ceiling. But I cannot figure how the bullet would. Did he put the bullet in backwards somehow? There’s no way it could have bounced hard enough to penetrate the ceiling... I dunno man. Help me wrap my head around this.
 
Some folks just need to be assured all is safe under any conditions.

I don't know how many inertia pullers I've gone through over several decades. The plastic polymer will only take so many impacts, especially when pulling bullets from milsurp ammo.

I've used the type with the molded plastic handle for a very short time, piece of junk. Then went back to the RCBS type with the steel rod handle, molded into the head unit.

The very first thing I've done, with every one of these pullers, was to get rid of the spring and collet holders they came with.

I can't see any reason why a primer would ignite, even if it was off center. Shell head holders have large holes through their centers, to accept the primer plunger guide. There's nothing that should be able to impact the primer.

Maybe there might be an issue with a "proud" primer??? Even in this case I can't see an issue. There's a very good reason why firing pin diameters are kept small.
 
Pretty sure there is SAAMI video where they burn a pile of ammo and the bullets don’t go anywhere, the primers pop out instead. Different scenario, though.
The inertial puller chamber would be quite well sealed, and a charge of powder going off in there might blow the lid off.

I’ll continue to use my puller with shell holders and eye protection. Maybe check for proud primers?
 
kodiakjack said:
Not exactly always the case. I had a 9mm round cook off on me rather spontaneously once. Had quite a bit more pop to it than you might think.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...RNING-Spontaneous-Combustion-(of-a-9mm-round)

Forgive the dramatic flare. I was younger and more melodramatic back then lol.
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Interesting story, a few months back a fumbled a 9mm round (not crimped... but it's not like you really crimp those anyways, just straighten 'em back out) and it landed primer down and popped right beside my leg. The case looked very much like the case in your photos but the bullets probably didn't travel any more than 8" through empty space and landed on the ground.
 
Why not just use the collets though? I had a 9mm go off in my hand while I was trying to seat a high primer. Stupid thing to do but I figured it would be fine. Nearly blew off the tips of two fingers and propelled the bullet about 20' across the house denting the drywall it struck. It really sucked...
 
B said:
Why not just use the collets though? I had a 9mm go off in my hand while I was trying to seat a high primer. Stupid thing to do but I figured it would be fine. Nearly blew off the tips of two fingers
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Dude everyone knows that if you're being stupid and trying to seat a high primer on a loaded round, the accepted safety procedure is to put on your safety squint and hold the primer tool at arms length pointing the other way. If you're going to do dumb things, you have to be smart about it.

and propelled the bullet about 20' across the house denting the drywall it struck. It really sucked...
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That's about what I'd expect. Roughly the strength of a hard throw. Wouldn't want it to hit me in the eye, but also sure it wouldn't hurt anywhere else.
 
kodiakjack said:
Not exactly always the case. I had a 9mm round cook off on me rather spontaneously once. Had quite a bit more pop to it than you might think.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...RNING-Spontaneous-Combustion-(of-a-9mm-round)

Forgive the dramatic flare. I was younger and more melodramatic back then lol.
Click to expand...

Ok, so first of all, that's an amazing story, and I hope you dine out on it until you die. That story should get you a beer any place that's worthy of serving one.

Secondly, yeah, that's kind of on the order of magnitude of what I'm talking about. We also cooked off a bunch of pistol rounds - 9mm, 7.65 Browning, etc. The pistol rounds had a bit more pop than rifle rounds. Maybe the faster powder and more brass area gripping the bullet vs a typical .30 cal? Just a guess.

But that all seems about right - set off in a car, it'd be like a loud black cat and would leave your ears ringing... When I say nothing cool happens, I mean from the perspective of doing it intentionally, outdoors, and at a distance greater than your typical automobile can offer. If I reimagine the same event in your situation, then yes, I can definitely see why that would register an impression.

I've tossed pistol rounds in a campfire, and had the same done by equally dumb friends, with minimal ill result. Luckily, 16 year olds seem to be impervious to things that would fell the common man. I wouldn't do it again, but I wouldn't worry too much about it either.
 
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Leatherstocking said:
Pretty sure there is SAAMI video where they burn a pile of ammo and the bullets don’t go anywhere, the primers pop out instead. Different scenario, though.
The inertial puller chamber would be quite well sealed, and a charge of powder going off in there might blow the lid off.

I’ll continue to use my puller with shell holders and eye protection. Maybe check for proud primers?
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RIGHT! That's a great video. Good memory.

https://youtu.be/3SlOXowwC4c
 
LolaPP said:
Ok, so first of all, that's an amazing story, and I hope you dine out on it until you die. That story should get you a beer any place that's worthy of serving one.

Secondly, yeah, that's kind of on the order of magnitude of what I'm talking about. We also cooked off a bunch of pistol rounds - 9mm, 7.65 Browning, etc. The pistol rounds had a bit more pop than rifle rounds. Maybe the faster powder and more brass area gripping the bullet vs a typical .30 cal? Just a guess.

But that all seems about right - set off in a car, it'd be like a loud black cat and would leave your ears ringing... When I say nothing cool happens, I mean from the perspective of doing it intentionally, outdoors, and at a distance greater than your typical automobile can offer. If I reimagine the same event in your situation, then yes, I can definitely see why that would register an impression.

I've tossed pistol rounds in a campfire, and had the same done by equally dumb friends, with minimal ill result. Luckily, 16 year olds seem to be impervious to things that would fell the common man. I wouldn't do it again, but I wouldn't worry too much about it either.
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Lol.

Yeah the biggest factor with that one was that I was driving, and it could have gone bad had I had the bag on the passenger seat like I usually would have, and all those brass bits got me in the face. Or, now that I’m a dad, if it had have been sitting next to my 6 month old in her car seat.
 
Story seems off. But the charge contend in the small space of a high impact resident material has the potential of building a fair bit of presher. In my opinion the shell parts would stay but bullet puller could shatter. But I know a sport's store in PG did not sell them because they had one go off.
 
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