Tavor vs type 97?

mclmm said:
Fair points and I appreciate the civil response. I'd only point out that my response was to you initial statement that ...the T97 is utterly outclassed by the X95 in every way.

At retail the X95 costs 220% more - apart from just wanting/preferring the X95, is there legitimately 220% more intrinsic (not perceived) value?

Accuracy, in your experience is nearly equal, with the caveat there is ammo sensitivity in your sample group - is that generally held as true for all units?

Breakdown is about the same in your experience.

So, and I hope you'll excuse me being obtuse, where/how does the X95 utterly outclass the T97?

Again, I'm absolutely not saying you're wrong or anything of that nature. I'm just trying to understand how people set and interpret data points while attempting to limit subjectivity and bias - it may be an impossibility. I get it, sometimes we just like what we like and want what we want...and so very often nothing else matters.
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Branding, QC, higher resale value, better rep, warranty support, all bring the price higher. A Ferrari that's 2000% the price of my car wouldn't necessarily give me 2000% more utility, but maybe give me 9000% more tang. Just what it means to you. If you feel it's worth it and you can afford it, get it. They both go bang at the end of the day.
 
Jarvy said:
When I bought mine? Yes. At current prices? Less so.



I should add that I've owned a different T97 previously with identical performance.

I'll phrase it like this: With the "ideal" ammo selection, the T97 has the potential to be about as accurate as the X95. But on a practical level, this is Canada. Our ammo selection fluctuates wildly, a brand common today might be gone tomorrow and you wont see any more of it for years. My T97 shot Aguila 62gr 5.56 (which was NOT M855, as it had no steel penetrator that I could find) very well, which was great because it was cheap and plentiful... until one day it wasn't. So I managed to find another that I could get a zero and a decent group with, which was cheap and plentiful... until I was desperately buying the last few boxes off of the store shelves last month. Not sure what I'll use when that runs out. The ammo that is plentiful tomorrow might be next to useless in the T97 because of the differences in POI, as I mentioned.

The T97 also requires much more EFFORT to be accurate with. There's more factors at play, as I described.

The X95 will give you a consistently good performance with just about anything, and a very good performance with the right ammo.



I equated them because you could remove the barreled action f the T97 from the polymer shell quite easily without tools. A nice convenience, but the important sub-assemblies, like the bolt, are much harder to break down. I'd rate the X95 as higher for knowing what's important.



I think it largely comes down to build quality and handling. The X95 feels rock solid, even more so than the TAR-21. The safety switch is exactly where it should be, the bolt release placement is brilliant, and the magazine release is in the very-good AR-15-style location. The X95 also has a redundant magazine release in the buttstock, just in case. It has more potential for modification with top rails, and a threaded muzzle.

The T97 is also notoriously picky with magazines. You can modify the magazines (or rifle, like I did) to be more accepting, it's a chore, and is not a 100% solution. Even your "good" magazines will (rarely) misfeed and crush your round into the trunnion. My T97 was been very reliable, with only a handful of malfunctions in thousands of rounds, which I mainly attribute to particular magazines.

But my X95 has it beat with 0.

Spare parts are a consideration. If a bolt shears a lug in my T97, the rifle is done. If a bolt shears a lug in my X95, I buy a new one. If a firing pin breaks in my T97, I think I might be able to carefully modify an AK one to work. If the firing pin breaks in my X95, I already have a spare on hand.
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Appreciate the detailed overview. It makes sense.

I suppose the discussion begs the question, and a different thread: If you’re going to drop $2,650 on a semi sporting rifle, why not just build an ATRS that’ll likely slam the door on the X95 by all metrics except length?
 
mclmm said:
Appreciate the detailed overview. It makes sense.

I suppose the discussion begs the question, and a different thread: If you’re going to drop $2,650 on a semi sporting rifle, why not just build an ATRS that’ll likely slam the door on the X95 by all metrics except length?
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Length, Balance and availability, I'd say. It then becomes a question of what tradeoffs you personally prefer
 
I have few friends who has/had Norinco rifles and handguns. I have used them and I am not a fan.
Some of them have very stiff trigger, ejection/feeding issue, magazine issue, etc.
You will never know what you will get. It is a gamble.
 
Not to derail the thread, where do you guys see the KelTec RDB come into the picture? The RDB is a NR bullpup like the T97 and the X95 but roughly a grand off the X95.
 
CaptainGoose said:
Not to derail the thread, where do you guys see the KelTec RDB come into the picture? The RDB is a NR bullpup like the T97 and the X95 but roughly a grand off the X95.
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Never fired an X95 and I’d never buy one anyway as I don’t buy Israeli stuff but my RDB has been faultless and mucho fun.
 
I like how they have a lifetime warranty for the original purchaser. I don't know if IWI has something similar. Also saw that the RDB is more accurate than the X95 but not sure about that.
 
CaptainGoose said:
I like how they have a lifetime warranty for the original purchaser. I don't know if IWI has something similar. Also saw that the RDB is more accurate than the X95 but not sure about that.
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Tavor/X95 doesn’t need warranty.

But in all seriousness, lifetime warranty is not all good in Canada as we don’t deal directly with the manufacturer.
 
andrew3081 said:
Tavor/X95 doesn’t need warranty.
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Quoted for truth. They certainly dont build junk. The fact that their neighbors would happily exterminate them prevents that. I don't recall any threads on CGN here talking about how they had to send a Tavor or X95 back or IWI pistol to North Sylva for warranty work. Im sure there is a thread or post somewhere. But I have never seen it. Now I am actually curious as to what IWI's warranty is?
 
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Ask around for locals who have either one or your club or range.
Seriously, hold them and shoulder them first.

A lot of guys buy super expensive pistols that might be astonishing quality only to find the feel is not for them.
I have both, each has positives and negatives.
If you are happier with the feel, you'll use it more often and it won't be an expensive safe queen/paper weight.
 
Hmmm, Chinese made junk versus an actual quality firearm, tough decision....

That's about as hard of a choice of this:

yugo-the-car-e1574465369837.jpg


versus this:

2020-aston%20martin-vantage-onyx-black-0.jpg
 
Ebola said:
Quoted for truth. They certainly dont build junk. The fact that their neighbors would happily exterminate them prevents that. I don't recall any threads on CGN here talking about how they had to send a Tavor or X95 back or IWI pistol to North Sylva for warranty work. Im sure there is a thread or post somewhere. But I have never seen it. Now I am actually curious as to what IWI's warranty is?
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CGNer "B" had his x95 kaboom on him. Can't remember the outcome of that.
 
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