Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Looking very good...
Jerry
Jerry
New Build - Looking for Weight Saving Ideas
- Thread starter TheNatural21
- Start date
TheNatural21
CGN Regular
- Location
- Fort Nelson, BC
In Steel or Carbon Fiber? When I asked about the weight I also asked about lengths that aren't listed and was told "No, but we'll make a note of it and consider a run if there are enough other requests".
I wouldn't suggest shooting a bare muzzle without hearing protection if you value your hearing at all. Hell, when I shoot suppressed I'm still using hearing protection...
Does IBI do carbon wrapped barrels now?
I would go with the EGW aluminum rail and the newer Vortex Pro Series rings. This combo on a short action is only 2oz heavier than going the Talley lightweight alloy 1-piece base/ring.
This is quite the exercise to reduce something by only 7 oz, do you really think you will be able to feel the difference of 7 ozs in a rifle? I bit it will feel miniscule at best, and seems like an arbitrary goal.
If you want to save some money, barrel contour and fluting can save more oz's/$ then going full blown Gucci carbon. An 18" barrel will be long enough to still be easily effective at 800+ meters, so you can save a bit by getting a shorter barrel. Also you can't really shorten carbon blanks by much, they are made for set lengths. Where as a steel barrel can be chopped down to whatever length you desire.
The more weight you take off the rifle, especially if you drop the muzzle brake like some posters suggest, the more the rifle is going to recoil and exploit any flaws in your fundamentals, so something to keep in mind. A lighter gun may not be as fun to shoot for extended sessions, but as a bonus it will really make you focus on your fundamentals, as any flaws won't go unpunished.
I recommended a lighter barrel contour above, but the drawbacks to that is they heat up quickly, so there will be longer pauses between strings of fire. May or may not be worthy of consideration depending on your planned usage and shooting style. Bonus is that a lighter contour will cool down quicker then a heavier one. My truck axel contours take forever to cool down once they get hot.
Good luck, enjoy the build.
If you want to save some money, barrel contour and fluting can save more oz's/$ then going full blown Gucci carbon. An 18" barrel will be long enough to still be easily effective at 800+ meters, so you can save a bit by getting a shorter barrel. Also you can't really shorten carbon blanks by much, they are made for set lengths. Where as a steel barrel can be chopped down to whatever length you desire.
The more weight you take off the rifle, especially if you drop the muzzle brake like some posters suggest, the more the rifle is going to recoil and exploit any flaws in your fundamentals, so something to keep in mind. A lighter gun may not be as fun to shoot for extended sessions, but as a bonus it will really make you focus on your fundamentals, as any flaws won't go unpunished.
I recommended a lighter barrel contour above, but the drawbacks to that is they heat up quickly, so there will be longer pauses between strings of fire. May or may not be worthy of consideration depending on your planned usage and shooting style. Bonus is that a lighter contour will cool down quicker then a heavier one. My truck axel contours take forever to cool down once they get hot.
Good luck, enjoy the build.
Optics is the easiest parameter to change cause it requires no modification to any other parts and still is 100% value on itself once you switch it out. Unlike cutting barrels for instance.
Primary Arms SLX 1-8x - 17.9 oz. Or 10 oz lighter right away
Swarovski Z3 3-10x42mm - 12.7 oz Or 15 oz savings
Vortex Diamondback 4-12x40mm 14.6 oz.
Vortex Razor HD LHT 3-15x42 19.1 oz
Primary Arms GLx 2.5-10x44 22.2 Oz
Nightforce NXS 2.5-10×42 COMPACT 20.5 oz
Primary Arms SLX 1-8x - 17.9 oz. Or 10 oz lighter right away
Swarovski Z3 3-10x42mm - 12.7 oz Or 15 oz savings
Vortex Diamondback 4-12x40mm 14.6 oz.
Vortex Razor HD LHT 3-15x42 19.1 oz
Primary Arms GLx 2.5-10x44 22.2 Oz
Nightforce NXS 2.5-10×42 COMPACT 20.5 oz
TheNatural21
CGN Regular
- Location
- Fort Nelson, BC
Thanks for the idea. At 1.72oz per ring (med height 30mm) they're definitely lightweight. I have the DNZ 2 piece coming now though and I'm curious to see how well they work.
That Vortex Razer HD LHT is the one I mentioned earlier in the thread. It looks like a lot of scope for the weight. I think I have the weight goal met without buying a new optic though.
It's not so much that I think 7oz is going to make a big difference, but a line had to be drawn somewhere. If I went with the line of thinking that "it's only a couple ounces more, I probably won't notice it" I could also apply that to the buttstock and get the ~6oz heavier one with the nicer LOP adjustment, or grab a heavier scope with a 34mm tube, and so on until the rifle weighs 18lbs. My sub-10lb goal is based on experience carrying and shooting different things and I think it's a good balance. I'm worried about sliding down the slippery slope more than the couple ounces.
As far as a lighter profile steel barrel, I'll give it some thought and look up some weights.
TheNatural21
CGN Regular
- Location
- Fort Nelson, BC
I thought the vertical MDT grip was a nice position, but the grip wasn't very comfortable so I immediately swapped for an Ergo I had kicking around. Well... I ordered the vertical (zero degree) Ergo for the best of both worlds and turned out to be 0.4oz lighter than the angled one! Yeah, yeah, it's less than an ounce of difference... but yet another pleasant surprise.
TheNatural21
CGN Regular
- Location
- Fort Nelson, BC
The action might be a bit heavier than I thought. Someone was generous enough to put their action (same short action Savage with the big BA bolt handle) on a scale and got 1.98lbs without trigger, recoil lug, or barrel nut. I'm sure those pieces will add a couple/few oz. Should still be under goal weight though.
TheNatural21
CGN Regular
- Location
- Fort Nelson, BC
Finally got the DNZ scope mounts after a long wait at customs. They're 3.7oz with all hardware. The EGW rail was only 2.0oz (not 2.5 as indicated on their website), and the old rings were 7.0oz, so changing the rings shaved another 5.3oz.
The DNZ rings seem like they'll do the trick. I got the two piece, 4 bolt per ring, medium height, A Bolt 3 rings which I can now confirm work perfectly on a Savage round receiver that's tapped for 8-40 screws (tactical models). I mocked them up, but I need to pick up some loctite before I torque everything down and get to go shoot it. I'll grab a couple pics when that happens.
The DNZ rings seem like they'll do the trick. I got the two piece, 4 bolt per ring, medium height, A Bolt 3 rings which I can now confirm work perfectly on a Savage round receiver that's tapped for 8-40 screws (tactical models). I mocked them up, but I need to pick up some loctite before I torque everything down and get to go shoot it. I'll grab a couple pics when that happens.
TheNatural21
CGN Regular
- Location
- Fort Nelson, BC
The DNZ 2 piece scope mounts ended up working pretty well this season. They didn't have a particularly rough life, but they held on tight for a lot of rounds. I would recommend them.
I didn't end up getting a barrel this summer. Once I figured out what I wanted the lead times were pretty long and I wouldn't have gotten it until this time of year anyway. If I can keep Christmas spending minimal, maybe I'll order one in December.
But.. I've decided I need to find a new lightweight bipod. My knock off Harris bipods leave a bit to be desired, so I'd like to get something a little fancier without adding weight if that's possible. The Ckye-Pod looks really cool but is pretty heavy, and the ultralight hunting ones I've seen don't offer anything more than the Harris style. Magpul apparently makes a pretty affordable bipod that I would expect to be more durable and better made than what I'm using now. It doesn't have the features of some of the more expensive bipods, but if what it has worked smoothly and was rugged that would probably be OK.
I didn't end up getting a barrel this summer. Once I figured out what I wanted the lead times were pretty long and I wouldn't have gotten it until this time of year anyway. If I can keep Christmas spending minimal, maybe I'll order one in December.
But.. I've decided I need to find a new lightweight bipod. My knock off Harris bipods leave a bit to be desired, so I'd like to get something a little fancier without adding weight if that's possible. The Ckye-Pod looks really cool but is pretty heavy, and the ultralight hunting ones I've seen don't offer anything more than the Harris style. Magpul apparently makes a pretty affordable bipod that I would expect to be more durable and better made than what I'm using now. It doesn't have the features of some of the more expensive bipods, but if what it has worked smoothly and was rugged that would probably be OK.
So what is your rifle sitting at currently, weight-wise? I've never really been one to aim for arbitrary weights for rifles but I did recently have a "relatively lightweight" rifle done up. Goal was a long range hunter/occasional ELR rig. Rem 700 SA receiver, 26" Hardy MTU carbon barrel chambered by Insite in 7 SAUM with their Al Heathen muzzle brake, MDT XRS chassis and premier rings, Bushnell Elite Tactical LRTS 4.5-18. It's not crazy lightweight by anyone's standards, 12.8lbs scoped no mag/no bipod and 15.1lbs with bipod, loaded mag and sling. Works for me as it's light enough to easily shoot offhand but pushing 180 ELDMs at 2800 fps, it's proven itself to be capable out to 1600 yards. The weakest link actually being the scope, doesn't have enough elevation to dial past 1450 or so and although nice, not as nice was what I'm used to (Leupold Mk5). Probably put a 3.6-18 Mk5 or 2.5-20 NX8 on it next year. Also have a 20" .308 barrel for it for hunting in dense bush.
As to bipods, there's really no free lunch. There is nothing out there as versatile as the Ckyepod but mine with an RRS throw-lever adapter is about 1.5lbs. The tripe-pull Ckyepod is even heavier (but even more versatile). I tend to run one of my Harris on the rifle mentioned above as they're lighter than the Ckyepod and have RRS adapters so come on and off quickly. Being in the mountains on the coast, I pretty much only end up using the bipod (in a hunting scenario) to hold my rifle up while I set up somewhere, haha. The terrain is generally so steep and unfriendly for a prone shot that I'll normally be set up on a tripod anyways. I think the Magpul bipod would probably serve you well. I have one and I'd use it on this rifle but mine is just for Mlok. I might get an arca one and use that. I haven't weighed the Magpul one but think it would be similar or lighter than the Harris but it's also way quieter without the exposed springs.
TheNatural21
CGN Regular
- Location
- Fort Nelson, BC
I believe it's a little over 11lbs with an empty mag, and I think I can shave 1.5lbs with a shorter carbon fiber barrel (while also making it a little easier handling in dense woods). According to the magpul website the mlok bipod is 11oz, which should be pretty close to a Harris. I haven't weighed my imitation Harris bipods for comparison.
I'm considering just going for a good bipod regardless of weight and keeping it in my pack until needed in the field, and enjoying all the features a top tier bipod has to offer at the range. An extra half pound on my back feels much less significant than a half pound on a rifle. Along the lines of what you mentioned, I'm often in dense woods where a prone shot is very unlikely. It's not unless I get above the tree line or to the edge of a clearing that I'll set up for a prone shot and I'd usually have plenty of time to grab a bipod from the side pocket of my pack. With the fake Harris I leave it on all the time if I'm choosing to bring it along, but I guess there's no real need to do that.
Their weight calculator was baffling. Going up a contour (about 0.100 at the muzzle) only changed the barrel weight by about 0.1lbs! What did yours actually end up weighing and what spec is it, if you don't mind me asking? I saw the option for the length of steel at the muzzle too and I wondered why anyone would want the longer options on a barrel they wanted to keep lightweight.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Remember that the majority of the weight is in the steel core.. and this doesn't vary much between contours. You are only dealing with a diameter change at the muzzle end which is typically 1.5" long. The CF and epoxy in between is very light
So if you want the lightest barrel, you want to reduce the length as much as possible. To improve stability, go with a larger contour cause the change in weight is very slight.
And weights overall can vary as the material weights can vary slightly.
Simple rule of thumb... A C6 blank is 1/3 lighter vs a SS blank of similar dimensions IN SPORTER CONTOURS. When you compare varmint and bull contours, the C6 blank is closer to 50% lighter... maybe more.
Jerry
So if you want the lightest barrel, you want to reduce the length as much as possible. To improve stability, go with a larger contour cause the change in weight is very slight.
And weights overall can vary as the material weights can vary slightly.
Simple rule of thumb... A C6 blank is 1/3 lighter vs a SS blank of similar dimensions IN SPORTER CONTOURS. When you compare varmint and bull contours, the C6 blank is closer to 50% lighter... maybe more.
Jerry
TheNatural21
CGN Regular
- Location
- Fort Nelson, BC
Thanks Jerry. I guestimated my current varmint contour at about 4-4.25 lbs (it's fluted) and was expecting more like 2.25-2.5 from a shorter carbon barrel in similar contour. What you're saying makes me a little more confident in those estimates. Not quite 50% but the fluting would make up the difference.
