slow death of the 40?

hatman1793 the 10MM, while it may have been birthed as a possible LEO round it has morphed into much more. Eg. I recently bought a revolver in 10MM. It will serve me well when carried under my Wilderness permit. The caliber is the largest that I can shoot accurately, fast. I think you will find others will discover the usefulness of this cartridge.

The stainless Ruger GP-100 in 10MM with a 4,2" barrel is a pretty neat package.

Take Care

Bob
 
NAA said:
Bet it's got more to do with ammo price point than anything else?

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NAA.
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That may be the biggest factor, especially on large contract purchases.

Also more mag capacity in the 9mm by a couple of rounds and 9 is a little easier on the guns and the shooters than the .40.
 
JMHO, there is no substitute for “momentum”, ie. mass x velocity or “power factor”.

Perhaps in a perfect world, the 9mm will be just as terminally effective as the 40 or 45.
Coupled with the advantages previously mentioned, (lighter, cheaper, less recoil, more shooter friendly, more practice), the 9 is easily justified to LEO.

In a perfect world we wouldn’t need guns anyways.

In my current world as a sport shooter, avid before Covid, caster, reloader, my calibers of choice remains those that begin with a 4.
But my 9s still get a lot of love.
 
Part of the wholesale move to 9mm by LEO agencies has to do with the service life of a typical handgun in the corporate/government world. Keep in mind that mid 90's saw massive shifts from revolvers to semi automatics, and the .40 was the "in" thing. Here we are 25 years later - warranties and service contracts have expired and are up for renewal. These guns in many cases are not supported as they were built anymore. A quarter century will do that, companies move on.

As a government agency, you either buy the latest version of what you have been using, or go back to the drawing board. The conversation has certainly shifted to the 9mm, just when all these agencies need new guns. Everyone is piling aboard the 9mm wagon.

The .40 remains a good round, as is the 9mm.
 
jparent said:
40. The answer to a question nobody should have asked.

Marketing at it's finest.
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Well this is a necro-thread...

But since we're al here, LE has been asking for a .40 at reasonable velocity since Elmer Keith was a young buck.

All that really matters is stoppage and what you prefer. One of the above posts mentioned that it took 1.7 9mm, 1.5 .40, or 1.3 .45 per stoppage. Heck, we could throw .22 LR in there; the number would probably be "3" and we have the tech to do 30 per mag like the .22 mag auto sold by Kel Tech. But who would want it? Quicker stops are better, and it's hard to argue the .40's advantages with like ammo.
 
The data is all over the place. Analysis of actual gunfights is another confusing source of info. All said and done though the FBI tests show little to no difference between them. Cost, recoil and magazine capacity make the 9mm a clear winner.

Even people touting the .45fmj over 9mm should keep in mind the fatality rate is significantly higher with the 9 which I found surprising. Without knowing the specifics of each data point used to generate the percentages it again just leads to confusion and personal opinion clouding the reality that handguns just aren't that great.
 
B said:
The data is all over the place. Analysis of actual gunfights is another confusing source of info. All said and done though the FBI tests show little to no difference between them. Cost, recoil and magazine capacity make the 9mm a clear winner.

Even people touting the .45fmj over 9mm should keep in mind the fatality rate is significantly higher with the 9 which I found surprising. Without knowing the specifics of each data point used to generate the percentages it again just leads to confusion and personal opinion clouding the reality that handguns just aren't that great.
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Handguns have been used to kill stuff all over the planet, but when we are talking about fatalities on 2 legged animals something like 70% of people survive being shot by a pistol, and somewhere around 70% DON'T survive being hit by a rifle (and perhaps a shotgun?).

It's very hard to get useful data from a big mixed up pile, as there is no standardization process. All different types of ammo, different levels of marksmanship, and different motivations for the shootings.

FMJ isn't great at disrupting tissue, and most of it is round nose. RN pistol ammo out of revolvers fell out of favour decades ago due to poor performance on living targets.
 
I never had a use for 40 Cal, but it is not going anywhere. In pistol calibers the most popular is 9mm then probably 45 acp, then 40 then everything else. Is 38 special going to disappear probably not. My favorite pistol cartridge is 44 Magnum it is way less popular then 40 cal. So long as there are people that love the round it is not going away.
 
Brutus said:
Everyone with an interest in this subject go to YouTube watch Paul Harrels video this very subject. Law enforcement asked him to produce this presentation.
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As I mentioned, actual, thorough FBI protocol and gelatin testing videos between 9, .40 and 45 are available from a user named Brassfetcher. They are filmed using a ultra high speed camera and come with graphs and such. Very well done testing.
 
I have a 40, love it, I shoot it a little, there was no 9mm at a couple of shops but lots of forty. I shoot 3000rds 9mm a year. Maybe 400 to 500 40. But don t plan on selling it. don t really notice the extra recoil.
 
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