Collet sizing dies...

[supernova]

I'm confused, the OP posting is titled "Collet sizing dies..." and the video link shows a Lee collet die. "BUT" he tells us he is having a problem with a set of RCBS dies.

The Lee collet die has a sizing mandril and a RCBS die has an expander ball.

Is the OP using a Lee collet die or a RCBS die??????????

The way I understand it is the OP is looking for feedback on the Lee Collet dies as a possible replacement for the RCBS die that is giving him trouble.

 

[Meroh]

I'm confused, the OP posting is titled "Collet sizing dies..." and the video link shows a Lee collet die. "BUT" he tells us he is having a problem with a set of RCBS dies.

The Lee collet die has a sizing mandril and a RCBS die has an expander ball.

Is the OP using a Lee collet die or a RCBS die??????????

Because I am having issues with the RCBS set, I have ordered a set of collet dies, and am unfamiliar with them; I only learned of them a couple days ago. Read the posts man; or have you spent too much time bashing your head off of brick walls??

 

[Meroh]

The way I understand it is the OP is looking for feedback on the Lee Collet dies as a possible replacement for the RCBS die that is giving him trouble.

Glad someone reads the thread!! LOL.

 

[Meroh]

So, from ANSI/SAAMI Z299.4 – 2015 I looked up:

You have a 6.5x55 Swede - cartridge drawing with bullet seated is calling for .2965" neck diameter at the mouth - less .264" for bullet, leaves .0325" for two neck walls, so .01625" each - I do not find a plus / minus tolerance for that diameter on that drawing - maybe someone else can??

EDIT: re-read your initial post - you are using a 6.5x55 Swede. So, when trying to re-size that brass, with the expander ball stem completely removed, the neck at the mouth of the "re-sized" brass should be less than .2965" and the ID of that brass should be less than .264" - more like .262" or less is what you want. If you are not getting that, the RCBS die has been opened up in the neck area, or your brass have had the necks thinned.

Wall thickness is within reason.

BTW, I used to reload these with a set of RCBS dies I sold with a rifle over 40 years ago, and no issues. I reload 7 x 57 with RCBS dies; no issues. Lots of brass on the case walls, a little variation, which is to be expected. Short of doing a casting of the die itself, I am assuming the die is worn since the ball is already undersized. The bullets just fall into the sized cases presently.

 

[Potashminer]

Not certain where that drawing is from, but dimensions shown match to SAAMI 2015 for 260 Rem, not 6.5x55. But neck diameter "close enough". OAL for 6.5x55 is 3.150 Max; Case head rim diameter is .4830"-.010", and so on. From SAAMI, Neck diameter for Swede is .2992" at the junction of shoulder and .2965" at the case mouth. Page 41 - diagram on top half of page.

Bullets falling into "re-sized" necks - pretty much confirms either inside of die has been opened up or that the case necks have been thinned - if can measure appropriate wall thickness, then yes, I agree something very wrong within that die, besides the wrong size expander ball.

 

[Markus]

To answer your original question. I use Lee collet dies and really like them. I get very low runout with them. However you'll need to bump the shoulders back as well from time to time. I like using the Redding body die to do that.

 

[bigedp51]

Because I am having issues with the RCBS set, I have ordered a set of collet dies, and am unfamiliar with them; I only learned of them a couple days ago. Read the posts man; or have you spent too much time bashing your head off of brick walls??

Use plenty of duct tape and string if you want good bullet grip.

 

[Meroh]

Not certain where that drawing is from, but dimensions shown match to SAAMI 2015 for 260 Rem, not 6.5x55. But neck diameter "close enough". OAL for 6.5x55 is 3.150 Max; Case head rim diameter is .4830"-.010", and so on. From SAAMI, Neck diameter for Swede is .2992" at the junction of shoulder and .2965" at the case mouth. Page 41 - diagram on top half of page.

Bullets falling into "re-sized" necks - pretty much confirms either inside of die has been opened up or that the case necks have been thinned - if can measure appropriate wall thickness, then yes, I agree something very wrong within that die, besides the wrong size expander ball.

Crap; posted the wrong one. They were next to each other.

 

[Meroh]

Not certain where that drawing is from, but dimensions shown match to SAAMI 2015 for 260 Rem, not 6.5x55. But neck diameter "close enough". OAL for 6.5x55 is 3.150 Max; Case head rim diameter is .4830"-.010", and so on. From SAAMI, Neck diameter for Swede is .2992" at the junction of shoulder and .2965" at the case mouth. Page 41 - diagram on top half of page.

Bullets falling into "re-sized" necks - pretty much confirms either inside of die has been opened up or that the case necks have been thinned - if can measure appropriate wall thickness, then yes, I agree something very wrong within that die, besides the wrong size expander ball.

I went right to the source, and guess what... No way CGN will let me post it. LOL

 

[Potashminer]

Thinking - perhaps if you have selection of dies, might have another expander ball stem that could be slide down into your die as a "gauge" for the neck sizing area? For example - very likely that your 7x57 expander ball is about .282" (?) - that should slip through easily. A .30 caliber - like 308 Win or 30-06 - likely .306" or so diameter - would not expect that to fit?? Off top of my head can not think of much that is common, that is in between those sizes? Depending on your tooling available might be able to make a "gauge" that would just slip fit? Or, as you mentioned earlier, a cerrosafe casting of the die's neck would remove all doubt.

 

[Meroh]

use plenty of duct tape and string if you want good bullet grip.

lol

 

[titch--]

I like the collet dies just for the fact of you dont need to use lube.

Also like the fact that I think it straightens/squeezes out any blemishes in the necks. My option.

 

[supernova]

Thinking - perhaps if you have selection of dies, might have another expander ball stem that could be slide down into your die as a "gauge" for the neck sizing area? For example - very likely that your 7x57 expander ball is about .282" (?) - that should slip through easily. A .30 caliber - like 308 Win or 30-06 - likely .306" or so diameter - would not expect that to fit?? Off top of my head can not think of much that is common, that is in between those sizes? Depending on your tooling available might be able to make a "gauge" that would just slip fit? Or, as you mentioned earlier, a cerrosafe casting of the die's neck would remove all doubt.

Or just measure fired brass neck OD, run through die with expander removed then remeasure and see how bullets fit.

 

[Potashminer]

Unless I mis read, except for the measure before part, I think OP has done just that - now I think should be trying to nail down whether lack of re-sizing is due to someone's work within the die, wrong die body, or due to someone over-thinning the case necks - either would result in no sizing to neck, which he reports, but from different causes? Therefore different remedies? His idea about the collect die, I do not think will work if the necks have been peeled too thin - collet sizing pretty much stops when those little finger close up tight to each other - which would happen on "too thin" necks.

He also stated that his .264" bullets just "drop through" his "sized" necks, and that the die had a .257" expander ball (??), so his "sized" case necks are too large for a re-sized 6.5x55 case - not being re-sized enough - almost as if being run into a 270 or 7mm sizing die of some sort, or perhaps a "wildcat" 270x55 die or a 7x55 die? - would need to gauge or do a casting to know?

 

[supernova]

Unless I mis read, except for the measure before part, I think OP has done just that - now I think should be trying to nail down whether lack of re-sizing is due to someone's work within the die, wrong die body, or due to someone over-thinning the case necks - either would result in no sizing to neck, which he reports, but from different causes? Therefore different remedies? His idea about the collect die, I do not think will work if the necks have been peeled too thin - collet sizing pretty much stops when those little finger close up tight to each other - which would happen on "too thin" necks.

He also stated that his .264" bullets just "drop through" his "sized" necks, and that the die had a .257" expander ball (??), so his "sized" case necks are too large for a re-sized 6.5x55 case - not being re-sized enough - almost as if being run into a 270 or 7mm sizing die of some sort, or perhaps a "wildcat" 270x55 die or a 7x55 die? - would need to gauge or do a casting to know?

He already stated his neck thickness is in spec. That's why I say measure, size, measure. If any sizing is taking place it will tell him the rough ID of the die. Obviously it's out of spec or improperly marked but that doesn't really matter now that he knows it will not work for his purpose. A new die will since the brass is in spec.

 

[bertn]

Hi OP/M.

I have a lee 6.5x55 set here with collet die that you could try.

Bert

 

[Meroh]

Unless I mis read, except for the measure before part, I think OP has done just that - now I think should be trying to nail down whether lack of re-sizing is due to someone's work within the die, wrong die body, or due to someone over-thinning the case necks - either would result in no sizing to neck, which he reports, but from different causes? Therefore different remedies? His idea about the collect die, I do not think will work if the necks have been peeled too thin - collet sizing pretty much stops when those little finger close up tight to each other - which would happen on "too thin" necks.

He also stated that his .264" bullets just "drop through" his "sized" necks, and that the die had a .257" expander ball (??), so his "sized" case necks are too large for a re-sized 6.5x55 case - not being re-sized enough - almost as if being run into a 270 or 7mm sizing die of some sort, or perhaps a "wildcat" 270x55 die or a 7x55 die? - would need to gauge or do a casting to know?

He already stated his neck thickness is in spec. That's why I say measure, size, measure. If any sizing is taking place it will tell him the rough ID of the die. Obviously it's out of spec or improperly marked but that doesn't really matter now that he knows it will not work for his purpose. A new die will since the brass is in spec.

I'm glad a few guys actually read posts; thanks gentlemen; this is exactly why I have ordered the new dies.

Measurements:
Ball on de-prining pin - 0.257
Neck outside diameter unsized case (average of two measurements taken 90 degrees from each other) - 0.291
Neck inside diameter; sized and unsized 0.261 (using an IDI dial caliper; likely accurate within 0.003 on internal measurements OD measurements have been calibrated and certified by our metrologist at work as correct)
Neck outside diameter sized case (average of two measurements taken 90 degrees from each other) - 0.290
Bullets are exactly 0.264

Saami call out for 0.2965 diameter at the case mouth. Cartridge body diameter tolerance is noted on their sheet as + 0.008, - 0.008 So, according to Sammi the OD of the case mouth can measure anywhere from 0.2885 - 0.2965

That means that my cases before resizing are 0.0025 larger than Saami minimum with no change after sizing; therefore, the die is doing nothing.

BTW, in both sized and unsized brass, the bullet is what we engineers used to call a "Medium Slide Fit"; insert-able with fingers with moderate pressure.

Thus, I concluded, I need a different die.

 

[Meroh]

Hi OP/M.

I have a lee 6.5x55 set here with collet die that you could try.

Bert

Thanks, the set I ordered should be here by the weekend; but I appreciate the offer!!