Shooting a Colt SAA revolver made in 1880's

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shelley1958

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I may be acquiring a Colt SAA revolver made in the 1880's. 45LC. I understand you have to shoot black powder ammo in these, not modern day smokeless powder. My questions are, where do i find black powder ammo, and also is it recommended to shoot modern Cowboy action cartridges in it, as Ive been told they produce less pressure. Don't want this old beauty to blowup in my hand!
 
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Check out Buffalo arms in the US. They stock loaded ammo for smokeless and black powder cartridges for virtually every known caliber.

https://www.buffaloarms.com/obsolete-hard-to-find-ammunition

also components such as the appropriate brass, bullets, dies and molds. If out of stock they restock and you can sign up to be notified.


Trick is to buy a bunch of loaded ammo for the rare calibers you need and any reloading supplies that need an importer all at one time.

That way you save on the importer fee and shipping fees. Also Buffalo arms discounts for bulk purchase of ammo etc.


This way by ordering reloaded ammo and the components you have the loaded stuff to use right away to get you started.

The loaded stuff creates extra brass for when you reload.

Or you can just buy more loaded ammo in bulk later if you don't care for reloading or don't shoot it too much.


Dies and molds can ship directly w/o using importer of course.

You need to go through an importer like Prophet River etc for the loaded ammo, brass and bullets.


Now this is not going to be cheap. US funds, shipping through importer, importer fee, tax and shipping to you.....

But.....

Otherwise hoping to find rare or unusual calibers in Canada to buy or in auction is going to be impossible or a very long wait and not cheap either.

Overall if you are willing to spend $400-1000 Canadians you can shoot almost anything you come across.


Oh and BTW

Have a gunsmith check the firearm out first of course!
 
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There's a Lyman book on Black Powder that would be interesting and relevant reading, especially the part on cartridge loading. If you have a reloading press, brass, bullets, and primers, then filling up with enough of the good stuff for a just-slightly compressed load is what you're looking for. Especially in the old revolver calibers the cost of factory ammo is just out there.
 
I have several antique handguns and have been reloading for them for a couple years now. One is a Colt SAA made in 1893. It is a black powder frame as is yours. I don't like the mess and other downsides of black powder but that is me. I used Unique powder in the beginning but switched to Trailboss. If you use reasonable loads the Colt will be fine and not hand grenade on you. What caliber is the Colt you are looking at?

Cheers
Moe
 
Lots of folks with early 1st gens wont even use full power BP loads in a gun that will be worth a mid-hi 4 digit amount...and personally, I think they are prudent to do so. They use 1/2 or a little more of a full load and fill the remainder of the case with corn meal or some other suitable filler.

The above being said, I do know a couple of Cowboy shooters that feed their BP framed SAA a steady diet of very light smokeless loads on a regular basis...but when I was timing one of them I stood a bit further back from the firing line...no use tempting fate.

That big flash & "boom" from a full power BP load is impressive to witness...but I prefer to see it from a modern wheel gun rather than unnecessarily stressing a $ 5000 early Colt.
 
How could anyone definitively say that an antique is safe to shoot, sight unseen?

I remember shooting an old .44-40 Colt, and when cleaning it noticed that the chamber walls were bulging into the locking bolt cuts in the cylinder.

You are asking about a revolver over 130 years old. Who knows what has been done to it over the years?

Old Colts command serious prices. If you plan on using it, you need to inspect it carefully, and to know what you are looking for. If you don't know, find someone who does.

Incidentally, if it is .45 Colt caliber, it doesn't qualify as a legal antique.
 
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I shoot my SAA antique .41 Colts, including a rare antique status Bisley with trailboss. Very light cowboy action loads essentially. I refuse to cover these old girls in corrosive black powder residue for any length of time. Another thing to consider when shooting these old girls is the hardness of the lead bullet. You are going to want to use a relatively soft lead bullet if possible. Go easy on that bore, and you should get better accuracy and not cause an unnecessary wear to that old iron.


Also, be very careful letting others handle/fire your gun until you have taught them how the SAA hammer and trigger functions and to NOT EVER pull the trigger when the hammer is cocked in the safety or loading position. I had one hammer and trigger completely destroyed by some CBSA agent playing with it. I had one trigger bent, got lucky as a buddy pulled the trigger hard with the hammer in the safety notch just as I was about to tell him not to. If you #### the hammer locking notches and break them off... its a very very bad day. Likely it will have to get exported to the USA to someone with the proper jigs to re weld it and then it needs to be hand fitted and timed to your gun. Or you can pay an insane amount for a used one in the USA and import it.
 
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45 Colt does well with Trailboss. It is what I used in my modern SAA Italian Clone and I would feel comfortable using it in an old Colt too. I would use a light load of Trailboss of course. I use Trailboss in all my antiques now.

As said above it also depends on the condition of the gun and is highly recommended you have it inspected by a competent gunsmith prior to shooting. By no measure would I use factory smokeless rounds in this gun. Nothing safe or healthy for you or the gun can come of that.

BTW being 45 Colt that gun is not eligible for antique status.

Cheers
Moe
 
shelley1958 said:
I found a box of 45LC 250gr black powder for $80/box
Click to expand...

That's a rather healthy mark up.

They are charging you almost 100% more than the Canadian funds equivalent of the US Buffalo arms price per 50 rounds.

Don't forget the 'plus domestic shipping' charges on those $80 boxes (and the HST tax).


If you plan on ordering more than 250 rounds, the math shows its cheaper to do so from the US.

After 5 boxes you have the importer and shipping fees (From US to Canada and then to you) covered.

Any any more you are saving almost $40 Canadian per 50 rounds by ordering from the Buffalo arms.
 
The latest batch of .45 Colt I reloaded cost almost $10/box. That's 0.20 per round - a dime for the 200gr bullet, a nickel for the primer, and 3.5 cents worth of Trail Boss. Some of that I got on sale and/or before current price hikes, I already had the brass, and I haven't priced black powder recently. But you save a LOT of money reloading this stuff, and you know and get to decide exactly what's inside. If black powder, do you want a full load, or do the cornmeal trick or add a wad? If you're buying the stuff you have to ask or guess what they did.

Granted, a wise man once said nobody ever saves any money reloading, they just get to shoot a whole lot more!
 
According to Doug Turnbull(Turnbull Restorations), First Generation Colts were initially made with iron frames, then colour case-hardened. The cylinder base pin was retained by a screw on the front of the frame.
In Jerry Kuhnhausens's Shop Manual, it mentions that up to around SN 96,000(1883)Colt cylinders and frames were made from metal resembling high grade malleable iron. From SN 96,000 to around 180,000(1898), cylinders/frames were made from low carbon steel. After 1898, Colt used medium carbon steel. Colt did not certify their revolvers safe for use with smokeless powder, until 1900....when the company started using an improved method of heat treating their frames.

So, what all this means is that, your 1880's-vintage Colt should likely only be fired with bp rounds. And only after being checked over thoroughly, by a competent gunsmith. The bp cartridge loads you found should be safe for use. But...only if your gun is in good mechanical condition. Even then, light loads would still be prudent....as Fingers284 suggests.

Trail Boss powder has been suggested as an alternative. Before even considering this powder as an option, take a look at the sharp pressure spike produced by it, upon firing. This powder may be safe to use in modern steel revolver frames. But may not be considered safe to use in any iron-framed revolver. Nor any other smokeless powder. Considering the metallurgy of the time and number of years this revolver has seen....this option would need careful consideration. Even then, only after being passed as safe for use, by a gunsmith. Food for thought.

You could try asking the folks on the "cast boolits" forum, for their advice on which way to proceed. Likewise, Peter(Rusty Wood) would be an excellent choice.

Have you considered reloading as an option? The .45 Colt is a very easy cartridge to load, using black powder. A simple, single stage press, plus a few other reloading accessories is all that you'd need. Brass, bullets, powder and primers for reloading the cartridge are readily available. Since you're in Sarnia, you could try "The Frontiersman" gun shop...116 East St., Sarnia. Then, there's Gators, in Wyoming. If these shops don't stock black powder....Hummason(near Ancaster), generally has a good supply of Goex black powder on hand. Plus lead bullets(DRG), and primers. You can buy new brass just about anywhere.

Hope this helps.
 
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Alex McKr said:
According to Doug Turnbull(Turnbull Restorations), First Generation Colts were initially made with iron frames, then colour case-hardened. The cylinder base pin was retained by a screw on the front of the frame.
In Jerry Kuhnhausens's Shop Manual, it mentions that up to around SN 96,000(1883)Colt cylinders and frames were made from metal resembling high grade malleable iron. From SN 96,000 to around 180,000(1898), cylinders/frames were made from low carbon steel. After 1898, Colt used medium carbon steel. Colt did not certify their revolvers safe for use with smokeless powder, until 1900....when the company started using an improved method of heat treating their frames.

So, what all this means is that, your 1880's-vintage Colt should likely only be fired with bp rounds. And only after being checked over thoroughly, by a competent gunsmith. The bp cartridge loads you found should be safe for use. But...only if your gun is in good mechanical condition. Even then, light loads would still be prudent....as Fingers284 suggests.

Trail Boss powder has been suggested as an alternative. Before even considering this powder as an option, take a look at the sharp pressure spike produced by it, upon firing. This powder may be safe to use in modern steel revolver frames. But may not be considered safe to use in any iron-framed revolver. Nor any other smokeless powder. Considering the metallurgy of the time and number of years this revolver has seen....this option would need careful consideration. Even then, only after being passed as safe for use, by a gunsmith. Food for thought.

You could try asking the folks on the "cast boolits" forum, for their advice on which way to proceed. Likewise, Peter(Rusty Wood) would be an excellent choice.

Have you considered reloading as an option? The .45 Colt is a very easy cartridge to load, using black powder. A simple, single stage press, plus a few other reloading accessories is all that you'd need. Brass, bullets, powder and primers for reloading the cartridge are readily available. Since you're in Sarnia, you could try "The Frontiersman" gun shop...116 East St., Sarnia. Then, there's Gators, in Wyoming. If these shops don't stock black powder....Hummason(near Ancaster), generally has a good supply of Goex black powder on hand. Plus lead bullets(DRG), and primers. You can buy new brass just about anywhere.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Alex gives some good advice here. Trailboss does indeed have a sharp pressure curve. To use it needs to be done cautiously in antiques. The best thing to do is use black powder in antiques for most folks. When I use Trailboss I use low charges. I also take into consideration the gun itself. When I load for the Webley RIC, Webley MP, and Bulldog in 450 Adams I use just 3.4gr with a 185gr hollow base pill @ 550fps. The Colt peace maker I have SN 151### was re-barreled to 38 Special and re-cylindered to 357mag (never did or will see a 357) by Colt in the 50's. Those new parts would be rated for smokeless but the frame is still soft so I still take it easy. With this gun I keep it to 4gr with a 158gr pill @ 700fps. The main reason I went to Trailboss was the complete combustion at reduced loads thus no squibs. With Unique which has a slower pressure spike and should be a better choice for antiques, I was getting lots of squibs and unburned powder so gave up on it.

Bottom line use black powder. If you don't want to and insist on smokeless it can be done but with caution.

Cheers
Moe
 
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I am in the same boat as you. I wanted (needed?) a legal bush carry pistol with some OOMPH to it and got lucky in acquiring a high condition S&W Mod.3 Navy in .44 Russian. I haunted the Smith & Wesson forum to garner all the information I could before I started reloading. To make a long story short, I load Jet bullets as they're soft cast like the originals. Bullet Barn had good pricing but their hardness on the Brinnell scale was deemed unsuitable for a true antique. I may get flamed by the purists for this, but after a long to and fro with a wonderful gentleman in the states, I settled on HP38 powder. As the chap wrote to me, "pressure is pressure". If you don't exceed the specs of the original ammunition and your firearm is in condition to handle it, you can load smokeless powders. I have to tweak the sights on mine (long story) before I'll be happy and I'll swap out the grips for pair more suitable for me and my hands. I may do a post on the whole process when I have it dialed in.
 
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