Bergara aftermarket barrels?
- Thread starter Dave64
- Start date
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
At this time, there ain't much out there for B14R aftermarket tubes. Then again, it depends on what the shooter wants as far as weight, length & profile of barrel desired. Contact Bergara directly to discuss options.
This video will open some eyes on how Bergara makes barrels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KwDcP-_WSw
This video will open some eyes on how Bergara makes barrels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KwDcP-_WSw
I can order barrels profiled to my specs ready for fitting by my smith.
I thought I may take a short cut & contacted Bergara re the dimensions of a B14R barrel.
This is the response:
Hi Allan,
First of all thank you very much for your trust in Bergara.
Regarding the drawings, unfortunately it is confidential information.
You may dissemble and measure the dimensions.
Please let me know if I can help you with anything else.
Best regards,
Guillermo Martinez
SALES MANAGER
BERGARA RIFLES
guillermo@bergararifles.com#
+34 647 453 135
DIKAR S. COOP#
Urarte Kalea, 26.#
20570 Bergara. SPAIN.
www.bergara.online
It's early days yet but based on initial testing, I think the factory barrel on mine will be adequate - From what I'm seeing on line, B14R accuracy is a bit of a gamble but pretty much the norm for any massed produced firearm.
I thought I may take a short cut & contacted Bergara re the dimensions of a B14R barrel.
This is the response:
Hi Allan,
First of all thank you very much for your trust in Bergara.
Regarding the drawings, unfortunately it is confidential information.
You may dissemble and measure the dimensions.
Please let me know if I can help you with anything else.
Best regards,
Guillermo Martinez
SALES MANAGER
BERGARA RIFLES
guillermo@bergararifles.com#
+34 647 453 135
DIKAR S. COOP#
Urarte Kalea, 26.#
20570 Bergara. SPAIN.
www.bergara.online
It's early days yet but based on initial testing, I think the factory barrel on mine will be adequate - From what I'm seeing on line, B14R accuracy is a bit of a gamble but pretty much the norm for any massed produced firearm.
They are also working on gain twist 22 barrels to see if that might stabilize some flyers past 200yds. I might be in the market next year and I’m very curious what their testing turns up.
Although it may be difficult to determine exactly what is a flyer at long distances, a round that is a flyer at 200 yards and beyond should also be a flyer at 100. That is to say, it's already off target compared to other rounds on target.
To shoot better at 200 yards and beyond, would a gain twist (or progressive rifling) .22LR barrel shoot better at all distances?
6mm Shooter
CGN Regular
- Location
- White City, SK
Maybe. But it never hurts to try. You will never know if you just spend time on Gunnutz saying it won’t work.
Indeed. If you follow your own advice, let us know how it turns out when you are out there trying a gain twist barrel. That would be more helpful than talking about it here and advising others to do it. Or to save time, readers should know that serious .22LR shooters don't use them because they aren't more accurate than, or even equally accurate as, standard twist barrels. They aren't in use in competition anywhere.
The best thing that shooters looking to reduce the number of flyers at 200 yards can do is to find ammo that has the lowest possible extreme spread. That requires testing match ammo for the best lots, either with a chronograph or on targets at such a distance where flyers can be unmistakably identified as such. That's time consuming and not inexpensive and it can't be done by spending time on Gunnutz either. For long distance accuracy (or the shorter distances for which the .22LR was designed), there are no short cuts such as finding a magic twist, progressive or otherwise. Without the best ammo even the best rifles are at a real disadvantage.
Haven’t “serious” 22 users traditionally stopped at 100M? Not your bag maybe, like the 100yd bush hunter. Others manage to be accurate many times farther away. If IBI offers gain twist 22 barrels when I need one for a 22 I will give it a try.
6mm Shooter
CGN Regular
- Location
- White City, SK
I guess with all the work you do searching for good bullet lots that all your groups are just vertically dispersed. Good shooters look at all the variables not just one. Go weigh some of your bullets.
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I was unaware that IBI was able to do gain twist barrels with the button method, I thought that was strictly a cut rifled thing. I do know they are experimenting with some non standard twists and the results look really good.
A good observation. Traditionally, the .22LR cartridge accuracy is limited to the relatively short distance of 100 yards/meters -- and there's a very practical reason for it. Unlike many centerfire rounds, which can retain or nearly retain the same level of accuracy at distances much beyond 100 yards, .22LR accuracy diminishes rapidly beyond that point. In other words, while centerfire may, for example, shoot a linear 1 MOA at 100 and 1 MOA at 200 and even beyond, .22LR experiences a non-linear increase in precision (or, to simplify, in group size) as distance increases. In short, the further it's shot, the worse it gets.
For the general reader, consider how much .22LR group size increases on average between 50 and 100 yards/meters, the distances for which there is statistically reliable data. On average center-to-center group size between 50 and 100 yards/meters increases by a factor of 2.81 -- a figure that is calculated to be statistically reliable. (See * below for some details on how this figure was determined.) Of course some results will have a lesser ratio, others will have a higher one, but the average is 2.81. Unfortunately, valid data is not available for results out to 200 yards and beyond but average group size will increase by an ever-larger factor.
On average, the typical shooter will have to shoot .356" groups at 50 to produce 1" groups at 100 (some will do it only with smaller groups at 50, some will be able to do it with larger ones, but the average will require .356" results). Beyond 100 the ratio increases. By how much is unclear. But as distance increases precision (or, more simply, group size) only gets worse. That's why .22LR precision is best limited to 100 yards/meters. To put it in everyday language, the further .22LR is shot, the more it sucks.
Many experienced .22LR shooters know that at distances out to 200 yards group sizes will increase by a factor significantly greater than the average of 2.81 experienced between 50 and 100 yards/meters. It gets progressively worse with .22LR. It's just the nature of the ammo, its very real limitations. The .22LR round is more adversely affected by outdoor shooting conditions than almost any other.
As a result, those who shoot at 200 yards/meters and beyond can't achieve the same level of accuracy as those who shoot at the distances at which .22LR ammo performs best. That explains why success is not measured by group sizes on paper targets, but rather by hits on steel.
Unless a barrel, regardless of twist rate, gain twist or not, can shoot better at 100 yards/meters, there's no reason to believe it will shoot better at longer distances. No changes in rate of rifling can change the limitations that are inherent with .22LR ammo. To use a tautology that many will recognize, it is what it is. When rifles shoot equally well, it's only by using the best ammo available -- ammo that's not picked by brand name but by lot testing -- can longer distance shooters expect to have improved results.
_______________________________________
*Here's how the average group sizes increase of 2.81 between 50 meters and 100 meters was determined. These are the distances at which there are electronic target sensors at the Lapua testing tunnel. These sensors determine group sizes at each distance. When the results of some 158 ten-shot group sizes measured at 50 and 100 meters are statistcally compared, it was found that the average center-to-center ratio between the 50 meter groups and those at 100 was 2.81 -- which means that on average, groups at 100 meters are 2.81 times the size of groups at half the distance. Clearly, some groups will have a much smaller ratio, and some will have a larger one. (For more on how and why this happens, see this explanation by Larry Landercasper. https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12065249&postcount=14 He posts under the name HuskerP7M8 on forums such as rimfireaccuracy.com and accurateshooter.com among others, and is a shooter who is widely respected for his .22LR target data gathering and statistical analysis.) For a more general discussion by experienced shooters of what results may be expected at longer distances, see, for example, h ttps://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1107273
Ryan was talking about it on a podcast the other night, but I’m not sure how far down that road they are.
Well, I’m not going to give up yet because you say 22 sucks past where you shoot it. Maybe the 60gr bullets with a faster twist, or something jacketed in the future together with a faster twist. Once it’s cheaper to shoot Center fire then I guess 22 will wither maybe.
There are many factors that explain results. When it comes to .22LR, no one should be satisfied with one single explanation.
Vertical dispersion is mainly caused by MV variation, but it has other causes as well that are not tied to MV. Horizontal dispersion occurs not only because of horizontal wind effects, but also by inconsistencies in the ammo itself and possibly also in the barrel.
While it's unclear why the focus should be limited to variation in bullet weight, itself only one variable, it is correct that individual .22LR rounds of the same variety may weigh differently from one another. There are several reasons for this. There can be variation of what the the different cartridge components, including the bullet, may weigh (or way). In addition, there can be differences in primer application consistency, bullet diameter and length, case dimensions, case-to-bullet crimping, how deeply the bullet is seated as measured by base-to-ogive OAL, how concentrically the bullet is seated.
But weighing ammo or measuring aspects such as OAL, concentricity, even rim thickness is less useful than actual testing for ammo that shoots well.
Don't give up after being reminded of the limitations of .22LR ammo. If .22LR performance past 100 or 200 yards is acceptable, keep doing what you're doing. Costs for.22LR ammo are about $0.20 per round of SK Rifle Match, $0.30 per round for Center X, and over $0.40 per round of Midas +. Reloading centerfire might be looking more attractive.
He's telling the truth, .22lr groups grow larger at a non-linear rate as distance increases.
In ORPS, we shoot KYLs at 50yds that go from 1" to 0.25", scores of 7/8 and 8/8 are not that rare.
In CRPS, we shoot targets at 370yds that are measured in feet, not inches. Average score is probably under 4/10.
