FFP vs SFP for CRPS

Suther

Suther

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I know the differences between FFP and SFP, and the general advantages to each. That said, I am wondering if it makes a big difference for CRPS type shooting specifically? Is being able to range at any magnification actually something that you need/use? Anyone care to point out the Pros/cons of each?

I noticed the Cabelas Covenant SFP scopes are half price right now, and was thinking about buying one. I've been looking for a higher magnification scope for the lefty 22lr I'm looking to buy regardless of whether I get into CRPS (current rifle wears a $50 3-9x32 rimfire scope and I dont have any interest in moving that over to the new rifle), but I would prefer to buy something that would suffice for CRPS use if I decide to go that route, and from what I've read people tend to prefer FFP but I'm not sure how important that really is?

Thanks for your input!
 
You are not able to range using the reticle at any power with SFP scope. You have to be on a certain magnification exactly for ranging to work.

With a FFP scope you can range at any distance because the reticle is the same size relative to the object at any magnification.
 
If you're going to dial adjustments into your turret before every shot, it won't matter FFP vs SFP.

If you run your scope at max zoom all the time, it won't matter.

However, in CRPS and other practical type matches, to be competitive you likely won't have the time to dial turrets for every shot on many stages. 90-120 second stages with multiple distance targets shot from multiple positions stretch your time a lot. Being able to holdover adjustments in your reticle and make shots is much faster.

Very few people I've met will run their optics anywhere near max zoom on 90% of the stages. Larger field of views will help with faster target acquisition and let you spot trace/misses easier. My optics max out at 30x, but lives between 10-16x for basically every stage, with the possible exception of a small KYL rack or a single very stable (prone) position with a single target at distance. Being able to use my reticle for holdover no matter where my zoom is is very important.

If all you have is a SFP, it won't stop you from having fun.. but if buying something for the game, you'd be doing yourself a major disservice going SFP.
 
Suther said:
Oh yeah? Its that big of a disadvantage? Can someone explain what makes it so much worse?
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The reticle, everywhere but the center, is useless on a SFP scope. By having a useful (FFP) reticle you can do tons of things that are extremely helpful, and you can do them regardless of zoom setting. Most of these helpful things boil down to either using the reticle to measure, or using the reticle to 'hold off' a precise angular distance. Though in truth those are really the same thing. But it is useful in a lot of situations.
 
If you do not jump around with your mag, SFP or FFP is the same thing. You just figure out the subtension on the SFP and fly at it.

Why FFP is the better choice is that you may/will have to change mag. With the FFP, you know the spacing stays constant. With the SFP, it will change...

If you go from precise mag value to precise value in a SFP scope, you can use the reticle the same as in the FFP except you have differing values BUT those values will stay constant relative to that precise mag value.

In short, the SFP needs a lot more mental gymnastics and the odds of you moving mag precisely again and again is small... so you will make errors and that extra hassle you don't need.

Could you run the entire CRPS match at say 16X on a SFP scope? Sure... and then it wouldn't matter what plane the reticle is in. But if you ever need to change....

Jerry
 
I have not shot a match yet but have a few thoughts (or are they questions?)

- If you have an Covenant SPF, the ajustements are correct at 16X right? so couldn't someone use the scope mostly at 8X and 16X and and do half values at 8X (also someone could make a pretty easy chart and use only 8X -12X - 16X- 24X

- IF you are cheap and have basic equipment, would SPF not give you much higher range then FFP? (as in you get more MOA of elevation at 6X on the SPF than the FFP?)
 
FFP for practical type matches for sure. CRPS would fall under this. Think wind/elevation holds. I'm rarely running full magnification on rimfire precision stages, but I still want my reticle subtensions to be accurate for wind holds or engaging multiple targets at different distances. Many stages you won't have time to dial up/down for every target, so you need to be able to find targets quickly (lower magnification) and use the reticle to engage them.

Honestly the only scopes I would even considering SFP on these days would be like a 1-6 or 1-8 where if you are using the reticle subtensions you are almost certainly on max power, or a hunting scope with just a plain crosshair and no subtensions at all. Aside from that... FFP for everything.
 
racerdude413 said:
I have not shot a match yet but have a few thoughts (or are they questions?)

- If you have an Covenant SPF, the ajustements are correct at 16X right? so couldn't someone use the scope mostly at 8X and 16X and and do half values at 8X (also someone could make a pretty easy chart and use only 8X -12X - 16X- 24X

- IF you are cheap and have basic equipment, would SPF not give you much higher range then FFP? (as in you get more MOA of elevation at 6X on the SPF than the FFP?)
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What you are describing is indeed 'functional'... IF, you can ensure the mag ring doesn't move AND that you have confirmed the subtension value of the reticle at whatever mag you fix to.

If you need another mag, that would also be a 'hard stop' so that its value is determined so the subtension could also be determined.... you do not have time to confirm the reticle each time you move the mag ring at a match. So if this scope was a 2 mag 8X and 16X with hard stops... sure, but this scope doesn't exist and never will.

Being off by 5% would lead to a whole day of frustration.

FFP just eliminates all this gymnastics. Costs are now similar if not lower. Feature sets are miles ahead so most SFP scopes are at a disadvantage in basic features.

new FFP scopes have more mechanical travel then most SFP scopes and often, you need to dial.. ALOT.

With LR rimfire PRS games like CRPS, there is no good reason to not get a new gen FFP product ... and I mean current as many are still offering pretty dated features and functions.

Athlon has announced a range of new FFP scopes that bridge a wider price range and they all share the best designed reticles, and layout. What the biggest difference for pricing will be the quality of lense and coatings.

Tracking that is spot on is massively important in this game. There is no game you will shoot in Canada that will demand more travel be dialed more often and given the trajectory... being off, means you miss.

Do you need to spend a fortune? NOPE.... but for the money you do spend, stay with the products that are getting on the podiums of this very demanding game.

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
If you do not jump around with your mag, SFP or FFP is the same thing. You just figure out the subtension on the SFP and fly at it.

Why FFP is the better choice is that you may/will have to change mag. With the FFP, you know the spacing stays constant. With the SFP, it will change...

If you go from precise mag value to precise value in a SFP scope, you can use the reticle the same as in the FFP except you have differing values BUT those values will stay constant relative to that precise mag value.

In short, the SFP needs a lot more mental gymnastics and the odds of you moving mag precisely again and again is small... so you will make errors and that extra hassle you don't need.

Could you run the entire CRPS match at say 16X on a SFP scope? Sure... and then it wouldn't matter what plane the reticle is in. But if you ever need to change....

Jerry
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Seriously Jerry! Dude this guy is asking for real advice. Youd have to be Albert Einstein to use SFP. I know and im a distant relative HAHA, but seriously FFP is the only way to fly at this game. Dont agree with me? Look up how many shooters in the top 200 in any event used SFP. STOP Ill save you the time NONE I REPEAT NONE. Is it possible yes but the chances of being succesful are about the same as a limbless person winning the Boston marathon.
 
I think that is what I have been saying all along...

If a SFP scope owner holds his mag static all match, he will be just fine.... say tape the scope at 10 or 12X whichever has a convenient subtension value. Dont change the mag, treat it as a fixed mag scope. Is he going to have problems? Nope... and he will get a chance to play without addn expense.

Is this the ideal scope? Of course not and happy to offer him good optic options.. but that is not his question. But would I be recommending the Cabelas Covenant in any format or price? NOPE.

I have said many times, CRPS or LR rimfire is the most demanding on optics wrt to travel, and tracking... You dont need to spend a fortune, but it really helps if the money gets you a scope suited to this game.

Jerry
 
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Voiced my opinion on ur first post before reading ur second. Ur quicker on the keyboard or maybe I was mixin another whiskey HaHa this is for Jerry
 
I'll also strongly recommend FFP over SFP. Even if OP doesn't think he will benefit right now, he will in the future. Also can confirm the Covenant 4 is an acceptable entry level scope for ORPS/CRPS, I finished 3rd overall in the ORPS national points race last year with one - open div to boot.
 
TheWhole9Yards said:
I'll also strongly recommend FFP over SFP. Even if OP doesn't think he will benefit right now, he will in the future. Also can confirm the Covenant 4 is an acceptable entry level scope for ORPS/CRPS, I finished 3rd overall in the ORPS national points race last year with one - open div to boot.
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Congratulations on a very fine achievement. Many times in life the tools used are only as good as the operator using them. Have a great holiday season and great shooting!!!!
 
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