How to grip an SA properly?

[Nibe]

Took my 1873 SA Pietta .357 to the range yesterday for the first time. Tried to grip it like my 92FS but found it rolls more in the hand and actually experienced discomfort in the index finger knuckle. Obviously less roll and recoil shooting 38spl but still not ideal. I’ve shot handguns competitively in years past but this is my 1st ‘cowboy’ gun and I know I’m off on the wrong track.

Advice appreciated. Apologies if I’ve posted this in the wrong forum.

Nibe

 

[emerson]

I had the same issue when I got my Blackhawk. I now use the tip of my trigger finger. Shooting right handed, I rotate my hand to the right until the butt recoils directly in line with my forearm. Feels strange at first, but even with short fingers I can shoot max loads in my 44 without issue using one hand. When it hurts, I’ve inserted my tripper finger too far. If the grip edges are not radiused I did get some uncomfortableness, but that’s a issue you can can with new grips, or a shooting glove. I only found it an issue shooting 50-100 per range session.

 

[kg]

Lots of us have difficulties getting a repetitive and confortable grip on the Navy variation.

Some blackpowder shooters say to put your pinky below the grip. I prefer a high grab, tucking the cocked hammer in the flesh between thumb and index, for a while...

Best is to shoot two handed as Cowboy competitors do, your weak hand cocking the hammer, or switch to an Army grip.

Staghorn might work too.

 

[Dsiwy]

Pinky below is the proper grip, especially with magnum calibers.

 

[Nibe]

I had the same issue when I got my Blackhawk. I now use the tip of my trigger finger. Shooting right handed, I rotate my hand to the right until the butt recoils directly in line with my forearm. Feels strange at first, but even with short fingers I can shoot max loads in my 44 without issue using one hand. When it hurts, I’ve inserted my tripper finger too far. If the grip edges are not radiused I did get some uncomfortableness, but that’s a issue you can can with new grips, or a shooting glove. I only found it an issue shooting 50-100 per range session.

Will give this a try today, kinda makes sense to to keep butt recoil directly in line with forearm. And yeah, I was using the middle of my trigger finger as well.

kg: I have been using a two handed grip but will try a higher grab.

 

[DANS40X]

Open your hand at web to a U shape.
Set pistol in hand.
Wiggle said pistol in hand.
Wrap fingers around grip.
Trigger lever should be at first joint of index finger.

Finger tip shooting a pistol 1 or 2 handed will push shots Low & Left.

A single action revolver grip frame is designed to roll in your hand under recoil.

 

[Can-down]

For shooting with one hand I like the pinky wrapped underneath, 2 finger grip, index finger on the trigger, thumb works the hammer.

 

[Nibe]

I feel like such a dolt. i was using my first finger as the trigger finger, the index finger makes much more sense.
Doh.
Also, pinky underneath for more stability.
Despite my travails yesterday, what surprised me was how tight the grouping was compared to my semi albeit to the left.

 

[Can-down]

Index is the first finger, I've used my second finger on some semi auto handguns playing with a high grip, but the pinky underneath position just feels right once you get used to it and makes for a nice support when your cocking the hammer shooting one handed.

Not many pictures online which is a bit surprising but this is the position I use shown here with a double action revolver, the two middle fingers provide most of the "grip"

 

[Nibe]

Index is the first finger, I've used my second finger on some semi auto handguns playing with a high grip, but the pinky underneath position just feels right once you get used to it and makes for a nice support when your cocking the hammer shooting one handed.

LOL

So all this time I've been giving people the finger with the wrong finger. No wonder they weren't offended.

 

[Wendell]

I wonder... how would Andy do it?

 

[Nibe]

I wonder... how would Andy do it?

That’s insane I can’t believe he’s still got all his toes

 

[Meroh]

Lots of us have difficulties getting a repetitive and confortable grip on the Navy variation.

Some blackpowder shooters say to put your pinky below the grip. I prefer a high grab, tucking the cocked hammer in the flesh between thumb and index, for a while...

Best is to shoot two handed as Cowboy competitors do, your weak hand cocking the hammer, or switch to an Army grip.

Staghorn might work too.

Pinky below is the proper grip, especially with magnum calibers.

Always.

 

[Alex McKr]

Nibe: As you've likely already noticed, shooting a single-action revolver requires a bit of a re-set, if you're used to self-loaders, or even double-action revolvers.

Opinions vary as to proper single-action grip. When shooting one-handed, a grip with the pinky finger under the grip tends to control muzzle flip and aids quicker recovery. With a two-handed grip, a "high" full grip...with pinky on the grip, seems to control the revolver easier. I wouldn't say one is better than the other. This has simply been my experience. Use whichever grip works for you.

As for attaining your "Master grip"...here's a tip: The middle and ring finger of your shooting hand actually does the majority of work, when gripping the revolver. With the thumb wrapping around the top of the grip, to add stability. The pinky finger really doesn't add much at all, to the grip. So, it is free to come along for the ride.

The index finger should always be free to move independently of the gripping fingers. A good way to test this is to grip the revolver, then see how easily you can move your trigger finger, without disturbing your grip. Your index finger should move freely. Ideally, the first pad of the trigger finger only, should contact the trigger. When the trigger finger is in too deep, there is a tendency to "curl" the finger around the trigger when pulled. This pulls the entire gun out of alignment. Shots tend to go down and left. Especially noticeable with a two-handed grip. Properly applied, pressure on the trigger should come straight back.

One thing I've noticed over many years of shooting single actions is that, when wrist and forearm are locked, the gun hand naturally tends to cant slightly, either right or left, depending on which hand used. In which case, I allow my sight picture to align the same way. I don't force the sights into a vertical orientation. My overall grip and control of the gun appears to be consistent. The revolver groups where it should. As a matter of interest: Quite often, you'll see those who shoot "Gunfighter" style, cant both revolvers slightly inward. Helps pull the sight pictures of the revolvers closer together, for easier sight acquisition. Plus, better control of the revolvers.

Just a few observations of mine. Use what works best for you.

 

[Nibe]

Nibe: As you've likely already noticed, shooting a single-action revolver requires a bit of a re-set, if you're used to self-loaders, or even double-action revolvers.

Opinions vary as to proper single-action grip. When shooting one-handed, a grip with the pinky finger under the grip tends to control muzzle flip and aids quicker recovery. With a two-handed grip, a "high" full grip...with pinky on the grip, seems to control the revolver easier. I wouldn't say one is better than the other. This has simply been my experience. Use whichever grip works for you.

As for attaining your "Master grip"...here's a tip: The middle and ring finger of your shooting hand actually does the majority of work, when gripping the revolver. With the thumb wrapping around the top of the grip, to add stability. The pinky finger really doesn't add much at all, to the grip. So, it is free to come along for the ride.

The index finger should always be free to move independently of the gripping fingers. A good way to test this is to grip the revolver, then see how easily you can move your trigger finger, without disturbing your grip. Your index finger should move freely. Ideally, the first pad of the trigger finger only, should contact the trigger. When the trigger finger is in too deep, there is a tendency to "curl" the finger around the trigger when pulled. This pulls the entire gun out of alignment. Shots tend to go down and left. Especially noticeable with a two-handed grip. Properly applied, pressure on the trigger should come straight back.

One thing I've noticed over many years of shooting single actions is that, when wrist and forearm are locked, the gun hand naturally tends to cant slightly, either right or left, depending on which hand used. In which case, I allow my sight picture to align the same way. I don't force the sights into a vertical orientation. My overall grip and control of the gun appears to be consistent. The revolver groups where it should. As a matter of interest: Quite often, you'll see those who shoot "Gunfighter" style, cant both revolvers slightly inward. Helps pull the sight pictures of the revolvers closer together, for easier sight acquisition. Plus, better control of the revolvers.

Just a few observations of mine. Use what works best for you.

Thanks Al i was hoping you’d spot this thread. It’s trickier than I thought it would be. There’s less gun to grasp and of obviously the hammer #### after each shot is an issue. Fun practicing though, the redhead says I’m beginning to look like DeNiro talking to the mirror in Taxi Driver.

 

[Alex McKr]

Nibe: Spotted your thread as I was casually going through the various sections over a morning coffee. One thing I should mention about shooting one-handed. You might notice that the pinky positioned under the grip actually helps stabilize the grip and reduces the amount of effort needed to #### the hammer, by adding a little counter pressure. Subtle, but worth mentioning.

Another point worth mentioning. When shooting two-handed... your "Master" hand(grips the revolver)...does the lion's share of work. The "off" hand is really only there to provide a handy thumb to work the hammer. So... only fairly light pressure should be applied by the non-shooting hand. Applying too much pressure by the cocking "off" hand tends to pull the revolver down and left.

About the only pressure I like to apply is with the index finger of my off hand....on the front of the trigger guard(Depends on how long your fingers are). This acts as a fulcrum point around which my cocking thumb rotates. I maintain minimal contact and pressure with the palm and other fingers of my cocking hand...to allow the hand/thumb to work freely. Once you get a handle on how this works, you'll notice how easily and quickly you can work the hammer....while keeping your revolver aligned on target.

This seems rather counter-intuitive to what we've been taught about two-handed revolver grip. Where each hand applies firm and fairly equal pressure. And works well, when shooting double-action revolvers. Not so, with single action.

By the way, practicing in front of a mirror is a good way to self-diagnose your technique....especially during the draw/aim/fire/reholster sequence, with your revolvers. Likewise, with rifle and shotgun. Just like dancers do ....you can readily spot any flaws in your technique...and correct them. It works. I do it all the time. So....regardless what the redhead says....you aren't losing your mind. Just perfecting your technique.

Hope this helps. Al

ps: If you find your groups going either right or left, while everything else seems aligned properly....look at your foot and body angle position. Starting with both feet/body squarely aligned with the target. Fire a group on target(I'll assume a target 10 meters from firing line....pretty common setup). It bears mentioning that this should be done at the same speed you'd go, when competing. Do not take a slow and deliberate aim. Where does it group?
Now...move either foot forward or back slightly(won't take much). If right-handed...step forward left /back right, a little. Left-handed...right/left foot, etc. Notice that the body wants to angle slightly, too. let it. Fire another group. Where did that one go on target? Keep adjusting accordingly, until your sight picture and group align. When you step up to the firing line at the start of a stage....simply adopt that same foot position. It works.

One last thing: Some shooters will tell you that since cowboy action plates are so large, you don't really need to aim to hit them. Not true. Best advice: "Aim small. Miss small".

 

[FranksPop]

just a point of interest about the assertion that the middle and ring finger provide the majority of grip strength; that may be your belief, but any physiotherapist, or orthopod would disagree strenuously with you. if you lose your pinkie, through disease or misadventure, you will lose roughly half of your grip strength. The majority of strength in a human hand lies in the ring finger and pinkie, with the middle, index finger and thumb providing most of the dexterity in your hand. there are a number of theories about the efficiency of different handholds and how they are affected by overall grip strength, but the individual finger’s grip strength both in isolation from the other fingers, and in conjunction with them is fairly easy to measure scientifically, and pinkie and ring finger account for close to 70% in most men (somewhat lower for women)

 

[nitro-express]

I decided to participate in Cowboy Action Shooting (CAS) so learning the nuances of a SAA style cowboy gun was a necessity. It's been said that if us Boomers hadn't watched so many westerns, the SAA style of handgun would be but a memory. It is an archaic design, but many have learned to shoot it well. It does take practice.

Everybody's hand is slightly different, and I found you have to learn what works for you. If you pinky naturally slips below the grip, that's where it belongs. I suppose there are teachers or coaches that can help, but for most of us, we're on our own.

Practice on steel, it gives you the instant feedback required for motor skill memory. If the gun bites you, change your hold. If you can't get a comfortable hold, you may need to change the shape of the grip panel. But mostly, you have to practice, learn the skill. For me, it took a while. I sold a few guns because they just wouldn't shoot. I realize now it wasn't the arrow, it was the Indian.

Somewhere around the 5,000 to 10,000 round point it started to work for me. I still get bit occasionally, but for the most part, it works. CAS is about learning to shoot the equipment of the period, so the shooter has to adapt to the gun. In the end, this makes you a better shooter.

You also should bare in mind, the revolver was designed to shoot a Black Powder cartridge, the most powerful one of those was the 45 Colt, a 250 grain bullet going around 850 fps. If you had a 38 cal, the cartridge was a 38 Long Colt. At those levels, the SAA is manageable. Load your practice ammo to those standards, use a powder that mimics BP. IOW a powder that does most of it's burning before the muzzle.

I have a few Cowboy guns in 44 mag, and a longer barrel helps tame the beast. Some of the other calibers work OK with a shorter barrel. I have a 45 Colt and in a 4 5/8" barrel, it works OK. Same with 44-40.

In 357, anything close to a magnum load raps me in the knuckle. With 296 and 2400, you have a pretty hefty muzzle blast, tends to rocket the gun back just as the initial recoil is about done.

After you get proficient, you'll start to appreciate the old design, and you'll be able to pick up any SAA and shoot it, they are all basically the same. I regularly switch between "old" and new vaquero and Blackhawks in calibers from 38/357 to 45 Colt with different hammers, and have tried a 75 Remington in a match with no prior trigger time, and it ran well for me, never really noticed the difference. And it had a bobbed hammer to boot.

When I think of shooting a SAA, the clip from the movie Quigley down under comes to mind, and the the classic line, "I said I never had much use for one. (A Colt revolver) I never said I didn't know how to use it." ~ Quigley " The revolvers in that scene were 44 caliber 1860 Army Colts, the SAA was a later variant of the same basic shape, introduced in 1873 as a cartridge gun. Rooster in True Grit carried a pair of navy sixes, 36 caliber.

Shooting a SAA is the closest most of us will ever get to travelling back in time, unless you ride a horse. Enjoy the trip.

I ended up buying a progressive press to keep up with my demand for ammo. In addition I did learn how to shoot with my left hand as well. After 50 plus years of shooting right, that was a challenge. I'm OK, just not too fast. I mention this as the new vaquero works best in my left hand. And the gun of choice is a 5 1/2" barreled NV with a Montado hammer. I prefer the longer barrel in the left, as it's a bit easier to reholster. My left hand doesn't work all that well for some tasks. And dropping a handgun at a meet, not good.

 

[Nibe]

I decided to participate in Cowboy Action Shooting (CAS) so learning the nuances of a SAA style cowboy gun was a necessity. It's been said that if us Boomers hadn't watched so many westerns, the SAA style of handgun would be but a memory. It is an archaic design, but many have learned to shoot it well. It does take practice.

Everybody's hand is slightly different, and I found you have to learn what works for you. If you pinky naturally slips below the grip, that's where it belongs. I suppose there are teachers or coaches that can help, but for most of us, we're on our own.

Practice on steel, it gives you the instant feedback required for motor skill memory. If the gun bites you, change your hold. If you can't get a comfortable hold, you may need to change the shape of the grip panel. But mostly, you have to practice, learn the skill. For me, it took a while. I sold a few guns because they just wouldn't shoot. I realize now it wasn't the arrow, it was the Indian.

Somewhere around the 5,000 to 10,000 round point it started to work for me. I still get bit occasionally, but for the most part, it works. CAS is about learning to shoot the equipment of the period, so the shooter has to adapt to the gun. In the end, this makes you a better shooter.

You also should bare in mind, the revolver was designed to shoot a Black Powder cartridge, the most powerful one of those was the 45 Colt, a 250 grain bullet going around 850 fps. If you had a 38 cal, the cartridge was a 38 Long Colt. At those levels, the SAA is manageable. Load your practice ammo to those standards, use a powder that mimics BP. IOW a powder that does most of it's burning before the muzzle.

I have a few Cowboy guns in 44 mag, and a longer barrel helps tame the beast. Some of the other calibers work OK with a shorter barrel. I have a 45 Colt and in a 4 5/8" barrel, it works OK. Same with 44-40.

In 357, anything close to a magnum load raps me in the knuckle. With 296 and 2400, you have a pretty hefty muzzle blast, tends to rocket the gun back just as the initial recoil is about done.

After you get proficient, you'll start to appreciate the old design, and you'll be able to pick up any SAA and shoot it, they are all basically the same. I regularly switch between "old" and new vaquero and Blackhawks in calibers from 38/357 to 45 Colt with different hammers, and have tried a 75 Remington in a match with no prior trigger time, and it ran well for me, never really noticed the difference. And it had a bobbed hammer to boot.

When I think of shooting a SAA, the clip from the movie Quigley down under comes to mind, and the the classic line, "I said I never had much use for one. (A Colt revolver) I never said I didn't know how to use it." ~ Quigley " The revolvers in that scene were 44 caliber 1860 Army Colts, the SAA was a later variant of the same basic shape, introduced in 1873 as a cartridge gun. Rooster in True Grit carried a pair of navy sixes, 36 caliber.

Shooting a SAA is the closest most of us will ever get to travelling back in time, unless you ride a horse. Enjoy the trip.

I ended up buying a progressive press to keep up with my demand for ammo. In addition I did learn how to shoot with my left hand as well. After 50 plus years of shooting right, that was a challenge. I'm OK, just not too fast. I mention this as the new vaquero works best in my left hand. And the gun of choice is a 5 1/2" barreled NV with a Montado hammer. I prefer the longer barrel in the left, as it's a bit easier to reholster. My left hand doesn't work all that well for some tasks. And dropping a handgun at a meet, not good.

Great info and much appreciated.

Nibe
p.s. Your 44 OV looks pretty cool