Anybody tried all copper bullets on big game?

I have used them and seen them used. I just don't use them all the time for everything. The main advantage of the all copper bullets ( besides not contaminating meat with lead) is that they do not shatter when they hit heavy bone like the Humerus / Scapula joint. They stay together and penetrate. The disadvantage is they tend to kill a little slower, because there is no " shrapnel" of lead fragments flying in all direction within the body cavity. Another difference is that the narrower wound cavity produced is also deeper than any similar weight / speed cup and lead core bullet. Also more likely to exit and that helps blood tracking after some shot placements where the animal runs a bit. So it's mixed result. The advice to choose a little lighter copper bullet than usual lead core weights is true, I wouldn't choose to hunt elk with 150 grain standard cup and core bullet in my .308 but would hunt elk with a 150 gr. Barnes tsx. Light weight is compensated for by no bullet break up and deeper than "normal" penetration. The all copper bullets definitely work well in most situations. But I use bonded core bullets too. I have a couple of rifles that don't shoot as accurately with copper. For most cartridges / rifles, and normal hunting at normal ranges, there is no disadvantage to shooting all copper bullets, and meat quality is better.
 
Last edited:
Longwalker said:
I have used them and seen them used. I just don't use them all the time for everything. The main advantage of the all copper bullets ( besides not contaminating meat with lead) is that they do not shatter when they hit heavy bone like the Humerus / Scapula joint. They stay together and penetrate. The disadvantage is they tend to kill a little slower, because there is no " shrapnel" of lead fragments flying in all direction within the body cavity. Another difference is that the narrower wound cavity produced is also deeper than any similar weight / speed cup and lead core bullet. Also more likely to exit and that helps blood tracking after some shot placements where the animal runs a bit. So it's mixed result. The advice to choose a little lighter copper bullet than usual lead core weights is true, I wouldn't choose to hunt elk with 150 grain standard cup and core bullet in my .308 but would hunt elk with a 150 gr. Barnes tsx. Light weight is compensated for by no bullet break up and deeper than "normal" penetration. The all copper bullets definitely work well in most situations. But I use bonded core bullets too. I have a couple of rifles that don't shoot as accurately with copper. For most cartridges / rifles, and normal hunting at normal ranges, there is no disadvantage to shooting all copper bullets, and meat quality is better.
Click to expand...

Thanks Longwalker - some great and concise information and guidance. A few times now I've pulled out the remains of a cup and lead core bullet and wondered where half the lead went, especially if you hit a bone. I wonder if that's why my hair is falling out LOL.
 
I think that if/when nonlead game bullets are mandated, as bullet designs go right now, the Barnes line has advantages over other brands. Their hollow cavity is teardrop shaped, rather than parallel and a teardrop shaped cavity is less easily plugged, allowing tissue fluid to more effectively initiates the expansion of the bullet. Hornady uses a parallel shaped cavity and Nosler's hollow cavity tapers inwardly. Secondly, is the shape of the Barnes petals, they are ribbed, making them stronger, resisting, although not eliminating the tendency to break off.

My second choice of mono bullet would be those made by the South African company, GS Custom. Their expanding monos are a bit different than Barnes in that they use 3 petals rather than 4, therefore there is more mass to each petal, and greater contact area with the shank of the bullet, making them more resistant to breaking off. Their PDF presentations shows that their petals will break off cleanly with impact velocities of 2700 fps into water. One might expect a bullet with a 4 petal design to be less resilient. GS Custom uses a parallel hollow point rather than a teardrop shape.

Barnes and Hornady use a grooved bullet shank to reduce friction with the bore. GS Custom uses a combination of multiple driving bands and a bullet coating to reduction friction. They claim their coating is something other than moly, and they claim that switching to an uncoated bullet, after shooting their coated bullets, will not be adversely affect accuracy.
 
^^^ that confirm my observation regarding Barns vs Hornady!! Thank you! Now I have to go have a look at GS custom....
 
Just Heads up !
As all BC Hunters should know, in BC it is illegal to use full metal Jacket Bullets on big Game !

While I never heard of anybody having being charged in BC for using a solid Copper Bullet on big Game, I would not be surprised that it could be argued in Court a Copper Bullet in fact fits the requirements of a full metal Jacket.

Cheers
 
Ok I think I found my next bullets, those GS sound really good on paper anyway, 1600fps impact velocity performance, that is 200fps less than the Barns and they look like the expend to a wider diameter too!! Maybe it is too good to be true.....
 
Barnes are getting hard enough to find these days. I'm not sure I'd want to develop a load for GS bullets based on finding them regularly.
 
Shoot Hornady GMX in my 300 Win Mag. Very tough and accurate bullets. Like others have said, watch the impact velocities for the particular bullet you choose.
 
DGY said:
Just have to buy a couple hundreds and I would be set for life!!
Click to expand...

That's what I did with the Rhino bullets I wanted. I bought them direct from Rhino in the RSA, and Kobus made the transaction painless. Seems to me that GS Custom had a Canadian distributer, but I don't recall who it was, and I don't know if the arrangement is ongoing.
 
Brassman66 said:
Just Heads up !
As all BC Hunters should know, in BC it is illegal to use full metal Jacket Bullets on big Game !

While I never heard of anybody having being charged in BC for using a solid Copper Bullet on big Game, I would not be surprised that it could be argued in Court a Copper Bullet in fact fits the requirements of a full metal Jacket.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Monos don't have jackets, but clearly the language in the regulation needs to be updated to reflect mono-metal bullet technology, if for no other reason than to avoid this sort of confusion. I could see BC being the first province to regulate against lead, or lead core bullets for use on big game.

Edited to add . . .
Don't confuse an expanding mono-metal bullet with a solid, a solid has a specific purpose, which is a bullet that ensures deep, straight line penetration, with minimal deformation. The faster a solid impacts the target, the deeper it penetrates, the faster an expanding bullet impacts a target, the more shallow the penetration is, due to the degree and speed of the bullet upset.
 
Last edited:
From Barnes tech support by email:

284"/7mm-

The 120 gr TTSX needs 1700 fps
140 gr TTSX/TSX needs 1800 fps
150 gr TTSX needs only 1500 fps where the 150 gr TSX needs 1800 fps
160 gr and 175 gr TSX's need 1800 fps.

On the 30 cal .308"s-

Examples I'll give you,
110 gr TTSX/TAC-TX (blue tip) and TSX/TAC-X need 2000 fps
110 gr TAC-TX and 120 gr TAC-TX with the large BLACK colored polymer tip we designed for use in the 300 Blackout, only need a minimum of 1350 fps.
130 gr TTSX/TSX need 1800 fps
150 gr TTSX/TSX need 1800 fps
165 gr TTSX/TSX need 1800 fps
168 gr TTSX/TSX need only 1500 fps
180 gr TTSX/TSX need only 1500 fps
200 gr TSX needs 1800 fps

The .308" LRX's also need 1500 fps
 
Boomer said:
That's what I did with the Rhino bullets I wanted. I bought them direct from Rhino in the RSA, and Kobus made the transaction painless. Seems to me that GS Custom had a Canadian distributer, but I don't recall who it was, and I don't know if the arrangement is ongoing.
Click to expand...

That would make life easy!!
 
I shot a spike Whitetail at about 35 yards last month with my 243, shooting 80gr Hornady GMX. Hit center of ribs on a quartering towards shot,through one lung, liver, clipped paunch and exited. Light blood trail, found the buck bedded down almost 200 yards from the shot and put it up. Rain started falling as soon as I got on the blood trail and i was losing it fast by the time I put it up. Backed off and waited for y partner to show up and we did a grid search. I found it about 300 yards from where I shot, still alive about an hour after the shot. One between the eyes did the trick.

I had better luck last year with the same rifle,approximate range and a 10 point, broadside, 80 gr fusion style, one shot, bang/flop. My usual choice is my .35 Whelen with 200gr Hornady Interlock. they dont always go bang/flop, but I have never had one go more than 50 yards and they leave a massive blood trail.

The GMX penetrated well, but in the small 6mm diameter, didnt transfer a lot of energy or create a big exit wound. I wont use this one on deer where I hunt again. Maybe if I had a long range habitat, but most deer I see are under 75 yards and quite often half of that.
 
If you are going to use a monometal bullet - drive it as fast as possible. Sounds like your Hornady's are doing their job and you may have better luck just sticking with your current load and swapping the Interlock for a 165 grain Interbond. Excellent bullets. I load them in .308.
 
With all this critiquing of bullets just remember this....

Which bullet gives you the greatest opportunity to work properly under adverse and possibly questionable conditions outside of our control vs which bullet has the smallest window of conditions that allow it to operate properly.

Some bullets just have a smaller set of conditions for practical use.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom