Traditionaly British deer stalking calibers

vpsalin

vpsalin

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I'm curious what traditional deer stalking rifles were most commonly chambered for in the UK?

I'm familiar with traditional french hunting firearms being chambered in 7x64, 9.3x62, 8x57... But what most common calibers were English hunters using during this time?

Because I'm assuming in UK, US-military caliber derivatives were not banned, did they use more Americanized calibers then the french for their sporting purposes or did they develop their own (similar to the french with their 7x64)?

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7x64 is not french, but created by brenneke as a sniper caliber that did not catch up as the germans preferred the 8x57js, but because all military caliber were prohibited up to very recently for hunting so all the caliber like 7x57, 6.5x55, 8x57, 30-06 and so on ...

i ve seen a lot of 243 win with the ghillies in scotland ...
 
I take you point. You're right, I'm trying to find a different point though. Roughly speaking, in middle of the century you're average american hunting rifle was likely using 30-06, average french sporting rifle using 7x64, average English rifle using what.... (7x57?)?
 
Probably the most used caliber used for deer stalking until recently was the .303 British of course. They also used many european calbers like 7x57, 6.5x55, etc but renamed them, the 7x57 becoming the .280 ( choose your own maker's name such as Rigby here) and the 6.5x55 becoming the .256 ( Gibbs, Westley Richards, etc. The .280 Ross was quite popular at one time and many of the important makers developed their own cartridges, such as the .318 Westley Richards and others. American calibers (and rifles) were rarely used until after WW2.
 
I struggle to believe that purpose built sporting rifles were being chambered for .303 tough...I could be wrong?

Most sporting rifles were then either 7x57 or 6.5x55?
 
https://www.shootinguk.co.uk/shooting/deer-stalking/14-popular-rifles-for-deer-stalking-46583

"Consider the calibre that will fit your deer species — for example, if you only have muntjac and Chinese water deer, a .22 centrefire, a .222, a .223 or .22-250 would be fine. If you have the chance at roe as well, then legally in England and Wales you need to start at 0.240 minimum calibre, so practically a .243 Winchester would be good. With the proper bullets the .243 Win would also suit fallow or red, but personally I prefer a .308 Win, 6.5×55 or 7×57 for these species."

Most of the UK is tightly settled, and their distances are quite short. Not only that, but their anti-hunting movement is aggressive when they see people with guns. A lot of their shooting is done on private preserves, or shoot - scoop -scoot to avoid attracting attention.
 
What you and medvedqc are saying is quiet interesting. I'm starting to think that British hunters didn't shy away from the smaller bores .243 and 6.5x55 even for larger animals such as stags.

I wonder if the 7x57 was not even more popular though for sporting purposes.
 
vpsalin said:
hmmmm 7x57 ?
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vpsalin said:
I take you point. You're right, I'm trying to find a different point though. Roughly speaking, in middle of the century you're average american hunting rifle was likely using 30-06, average french sporting rifle using 7x64, average English rifle using what.... (7x57?)?
Click to expand...

vpsalin said:
I struggle to believe that purpose built sporting rifles were being chambered for .303 tough...I could be wrong?

Most sporting rifles were then either 7x57 or 6.5x55?
Click to expand...

vpsalin said:
What you and medvedqc are saying is quiet interesting. I'm starting to think that British hunters didn't shy away from the smaller bores .243 and 6.5x55 even for larger animals such as stags.

I wonder if the 7x57 was not even more popular though for sporting purposes.
Click to expand...

You seem to want people to say 7X57... so I'll say 7X57 as it is Christmas.
 
Nothing in the UK you can't bowl over with a 6.5x55 given it's popularity with moose hunters. One thing that hunters in NA may not realize about the Islands is just how many species of deer there are. Officially something like 5 or 6, but if you hang out there seem to be other species, maybe the distribution is minimal, or some of the specie names overlap.


I don't know if it factors in, but in the UK, the animals are not being tested by grizzlies, black bear, puma, wolves, coyotes, and hunted reasonably heavily in many areas. Whether that makes them easier to knock over I don't know. Certainly they say abundance pike make the Liffey trout tougher. :)
 
vpsalin said:
I struggle to believe that purpose built sporting rifles were being chambered for .303 tough...I could be wrong?

Most sporting rifles were then either 7x57 or 6.5x55?
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I have three such sporting rifles in my safe at present.

The Army and Navy Society offered at least four different configurations of Lee Metfords and Enfields, chambered for the 303 Brit. Several private makers also built double rifles chambered for the 303 Brit.

Cogswell and Harrison had their own versions of custom Long Lees and and later other marks.

There was a whole cottage industry of private gunsmithing shops in the UK that built up sporting rifles to order on Long Lees and other marks, right up to and after WWII, as well as custom double rifles and single shot Martinis.

The hunters in the UK also used different Mannlicher and Mauser action rifles. One that comes to mind was a Commando commander, pictured carrying a MS carbine, chambered for the 6.5x53.
 
vpsalin said:
I struggle to believe that purpose built sporting rifles were being chambered for .303 tough...I could be wrong?

Most sporting rifles were then either 7x57 or 6.5x55?
Click to expand...

Purpose built sporting rifles were definitely built in .303 very commonly. 275 Rigby was definitely popular as were cartridges like the 280 Ross, And the 256 Mannlicher. I’ve seen very very few Older 6.5x55s in the UK, although it became more popular in recent times.

Today the most common would almost certainly be the .243 and .308 Winchester.
 
Here are a couple of early stalking rifles, the first is a Gibbs Farquarson in Gibbs 256 rimmed which is the 6,5X53 and the other is a purpose built BSA sporter in 303

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WR1894 said:
Here are a couple of early stalking rifles, the first is a Gibbs Farquarson in Gibbs 256 rimmed which is the 6,5X53 and the other is a purpose built BSA sporter in 303

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Nice. I have a bsa lee speed that looks like that as well but 10 round mag and more engraving. Im also building one chambered in 5.6x53R as well.
 
By about 1920, there was a centerfire counterpart to virtually every round currently produced. If a cartridge is being used today, with near certainty something identical to it was being used in Britain already -- the .240 Rimless H&H for instance, corresponding to the .243, or the .244 H&H a bit later corresponding to the .240 WTBY; the .318 WR in 1909 vs the .338 Federal today. All loaded on 'obsolete' actions I might add. But between the British and the Germans there were dozens of factory cartridges in production, as well as the usual .303 and .275/7x57.
 
Pepperpopper said:
Nothing in the UK you can't bowl over with a 6.5x55 given it's popularity with moose hunters. One thing that hunters in NA may not realize about the Islands is just how many species of deer there are. Officially something like 5 or 6, but if you hang out there seem to be other species, maybe the distribution is minimal, or some of the specie names overlap.


I don't know if it factors in, but in the UK, the animals are not being tested by grizzlies, black bear, puma, wolves, coyotes, and hunted reasonably heavily in many areas. Whether that makes them easier to knock over I don't know. Certainly they say abundance pike make the Liffey trout tougher. :)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deer_of_Great_Britain

The all-knowing wiki says six species of deer -

Scottish red deer (native)
roe deer (native)
fallow deer (introduced by the Romans)
sika deer (alien and now hybridizing with red deer)
Reeves's muntjac (alien)
Chinese water deer (alien)

Eurasian elk, ie moose (a private preserve in Scotland)
Reindeer (private preserves)
 
I think I can contribute here

One must understand there is a lot of snobbery in stalking.

If you go to the right estate you need to have the pre-requisite pedigree

Obviously one cannot buy a background , hence in the 70’s, 80’s, 90’s, we had lots of Arabs, Japanese and Russians trying to barge in and they were never accepted.

The same with rifles and calibres

If you own land - and you folks know exactly what I mean by that

275 RIGBY
303

You will also have your “favourite” or personal guille.

If you miss or botch up something , just a stare at the guille, he will know exactly what needs to be done and not a word about when back at the house.

The guille’s favourite at the moment are

243
308

Of course this is really generalised.

But I hope you get the picture

Of course you can turn up if invited in anything you want and by god I have seen it

These guests invariable gets the worse stalk and gets what we call a MARSH TOUR of Macbeth.

I stalked in U.K. Scotland and Ireland for 35 years and I have always use a kiplauff in 6.5x55.

Takes care of all 6+2 species of deer.

And now you are going to ask what is 6+2 ....quick goggle
 
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