Barrel length for long range

[scuba52]

What would be your choice in length for a long range (300-500) barrel.
I am thinking about the new vudoo single shot or anshutz. The most accurate gun I have owned to date was my bergara followed closely by a cz 457 mtr 16 inch. I will probably go longer but any info would be appreciated

 

[enefgee]

I wouldn't go much longer, there isn't anything to be gained, other than balance or handling over about 18. The quality of the barrel is much more important than the length.

 

[scuba52]

I’m thinking 20-22, velocity doesn’t go up but that isn’t really what your after, more for consistency

 

[grauhanen]

As you note in post #3, the greatest velocity isn't necessarily what you're after when it comes to long range accuracy.

To be sure, barrels in the 18" to 22" range usually shoot .22LR SV ammo at greater muzzle velocities than longer barrels. But the longer barrel's slower velocities result in less wind drift. In a 10 mph crosswind, a .22LR bullet with an MV that is 50 fps faster drifts over 1.5" more at 300 yards than the slower one.

One of the obvious considerations with barrels of different lengths is weight. Longer barrels are heavier and can contibute to greater stability, and this can be important in accuracy.

Longer barrels are often of a greater diameter than shorter barrels. This can help make such barrels less susceptible to variations in barrel vibrations caused by ammos velocity differences.

Some shooters say that chronograph data shows that while longer barrels reduce MV's, they reduce velocity spreads, producing a lower ES. (See, for example, the video posted here h t t ps://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/optimal-22lr-barrel-length.4007840/) Nevertheless, there is insufficient information to confirm this claim.

Perhaps the most important consideration may be the quality of the barrel itself. While barrel length can influence a few important things such as weight and MV, bore quality trumps length. So too for the chamber.

 

[scuba52]

A question for you grunhanen, I was really looking at the silhouette model of anshutz, and I think this might be the rifle I end up with as it is half of the cost of the vudoo or rimx and still has fantastic pedigree. I think the stock would be very well set up for prone, am I correct as I have yet to fondle one

 

[mineguy]

A question for you grunhanen, I was really looking at the silhouette model of anshutz, and I think this might be the rifle I end up with as it is half of the cost of the vudoo or rimx and still has fantastic pedigree. I think the stock would be very well set up for prone, am I correct as I have yet to fondle one

Steve I have the 64 MS R and it shoots very well. It has the 64 action. Mine is in the 1/2" club. Not sure if that is the silhouette model you are looking at. They call it the 1903 MS R now and there is one on EE and Nordic Marksman has a bunch. Good rifle.
The one I have not pulled the plug on yet is the 1712 silhouette with the 54 action. That was in the testing that Glenn showed in another thread and it did really well. The Vudoo or RimX are lovely but for double the money? hmmm I hesitate on that even though I am sure they are in a class of their own, I wonder if I am capable of the gun.

 

[mineguy]

The 64 MS R has a 21" barrel

 

[scuba52]

That is the one. Looks like it would be a nice gun for prone shooting and should be very accurate. I can’t see how the others are that much superior. Might give up a bit but for an extra 2k they can keep it lol

 

[45Auto]

You may want to take a look at the Annie 1761's. They will be available in a MSR type and MPR stocks this year.

 

[scuba52]

God those stocks are nice, I think I’ll have to have a chat with Nordic marksman

 

[grauhanen]

The Anschutz 64 M SR (Metallic Silhouette Repeater) is a good rifle. As noted, it doesn't have a long barrel at 21.4", which, while not long by Anschutz standards, is heavy with a 21.5mm diameter. It shares the same 5098 trigger with the 1903 target model and the 64 MPR, among others, and it adjusts to a low of 6.3 ounces (180g). Anschutz barrels on both 64 and 54 action rifles are among the best of factory barrels made. Although Anschutz doesn't publish information about the chambers it uses, it's likely that Anschutz repeaters don't have the same match chambers as the Anschutz match 54 single shot rifles have, but they are certainly tighter than most sporter rifles.

I had the earlier 64 M SR model (see below), which was produced after 2009 and was updated recently by the 1903 M SR. The newer version has the same barreled action but the stock has an Anschutz accessory rail under the forearm, a feature the previous iteration did not have, as well as an adjustable butt pad. I used my rifle from the bench but I don't see why it wouldn't perform well from the prone position, especially if a relatively high comb is not a problem.



With the discontinuation of the 64 action series, once the current stock of 64 action Anschutz rifles at dealers are sold they will only be available on the previously owned market.

 

[scuba52]

Nice looking rifle, that is what I am leaning to at the moment. With the accuracy potential of them it should preform very well for my needs, and I think fits what I was thinking for barrel. Heavy enough for stability, tight chamber and nice looking wood
Thanks glenn

 

[scuba52]

Better action? In the new model or just a new model they say is improved

 

[mineguy]

When you talk to Nordic make sure you confirm the buttstock pad is adjustable or can be made so. That requires the proper hardware in the stock to do that. Mine is like Glenns and you cannot upgrade the pad to an adjustable one. I believe the new 1903's can put the adjustable pad in. Plus it has the built in rail in the forend which mine does not.
I really like mine. Just a great shooter and I think at a good cost point.

 

[mineguy]

I changed the scope setup since this photo to some Burris rings but mine is running the same Athlon scope. While I was shooting for the 1/2" club I used a Sightron 36X scope I bought from Glenn. But the Athlon is great and has 110 MOA available. Started playing with this setup at 2-300 metres but a new 243 distracted me this year for those times my range was open.

 

[grauhanen]

Better action? In the new model or just a new model they say is improved

In about 2009 Anschutz made changes to the 64 action. It became a little wider and as a result heavier. I prefer the post-2009 64 action over the original 64 as it feels much more solid and robust.

One other thing to note, in addition to the usual 11mm dovetail grooves, the updated M SR receiver is drilled and tapped for scope bases. The previous version of the M SR that I had and is shown above was probably also drilled and tapped, but I can't remember for sure.

The post-2009 64 receiver below.

 

[Alpheus]

To be sure, barrels in the 18" to 22" range usually shoot .22LR SV ammo at greater muzzle velocities than longer barrels. But the longer barrel's slower velocities result in less wind drift. In a 10 mph crosswind, a .22LR bullet with an MV that is 50 fps faster drifts over 1.5" more at 300 yards than the slower one.

I've heard this before, but it just sounds so counter-intuitive. Is it because the faster bullets spend more time in the transonic zone then the slower bullets? What kind of velocities are we talking here? 1050fps will drift less then 1100fps?

 

[RabidM4U5]

A question for you grunhanen, I was really looking at the silhouette model of anshutz, and I think this might be the rifle I end up with as it is half of the cost of the vudoo or rimx and still has fantastic pedigree. I think the stock would be very well set up for prone, am I correct as I have yet to fondle one

Yeah, while is was specifically designed for standing, it does transfer over to prone position quite well. The wide flat forestock sits comfortable and stable in your palm. The comb is high (so that you can keep your neck straight when standing during silhouette match), just choose your ring height appropriately so that your are comfortable in prone with that comb. Mine is the older 64 MSR, I see the new one has an adjustable butt and accessory rail in the forestock, about the only real difference. Anschütz really shines with their position rifles, popular among Olympians too

I've heard this before, but it just sounds so counter-intuitive. Is it because the faster bullets spend more time in the transonic zone then the slower bullets? What kind of velocities are we talking here? 1050fps will drift less then 1100fps?

You need to become a little more familiar with the physics of ballistics to understand it. Wind drift doesn't occur because the wind "pushes" the bullet, it has more to do with drag and angular deflection. See this article for explanation: https://www.ssusa.org/articles/2016/12/7/expert-forum-wind-shooting

The forces of drag increase exponentially within the trans-sonic zone for given increases in velocity, therefore, for .22LR, higher velocity ammo will be susceptible to more wind drift than lower velocity rounds. Most HV ammo is of low quality, resulting in poor accuracy as well.

 

[grauhanen]

I've heard this before, but it just sounds so counter-intuitive. Is it because the faster bullets spend more time in the transonic zone then the slower bullets? What kind of velocities are we talking here? 1050fps will drift less then 1100fps?

While I was preparing an answer, Rabid posted a very good explanation for why slower .22LR bullets drift less in the wind.

As for your specific example of a 1050 fps round compared to one that is 1100 fps, below is a ballistics chart showing wind drift with a 10mph crosswind.

 

[Maple57]

There's some noise on the internet regarding a relationship between barrel length and barrel twist rate for 22LR.

For center fire, fast twist barrels are generally associated with long projectiles, but apparently that's not the whole story for 22LR.

Guys seem to be going with faster twist rates than the traditional 1:16 once barrels get longer than 22 inches.

A buddy has a 24 inch MTU barrel with a 1:12 twist that is every bit as accurate at 100 yards as his vudoo with a 22" 1:16... although about 15 FPS slower with the same bullet.

I would not let the 15 FPS be the reason you select one over the other as the long range benefits may invert the relationship.

It is claimed that the faster twist rate improves the BC slightly by keeping the bullet from spinning off axis in flight and slowing down as a result of that wobble.

My preference is for a longer barrel if it is for the purpose of establishing the correct balance, depending on your application. PRS for example needs a 24 inch MTU or longer to get the balance right.