Accuracy at 2500 Yards

Obtunded said:
By my math, starting at about 3000 fps and a BC of .556, it is about trans-sonic at one mile. (SOS ~1066 fps at seal level, I'm at 2200') Bergers continue to impress me. You can fire the shot, take off the muffs and listen for the "tink". With some late afternoon sun, you can watch the bullets fall on target... they appear to drop out of the sky!

sun = mirage and then results change a whole lot!
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Now THIS is a thread!
:)
 
As always, Mystic, you bring intelligent insight to the forum. Though your replys are long winded, I still can't stop reading what you write for some reason.
I know of a certain gunsmith in Calgary that has done some serious research on the 408-375. He's even lined up an action builder and stock maker but it will be a single shot.

As for the 338LM AI, that same gunsmith is chambering 338 Edges in AI as well which makes the 338LM look very pricey.

Mystic, I'm hoping timing will be kind to more long rangers this year. I want to take a look at the mile rock again.

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So far, can't find a single company offering 408 Chey Tac type bullets. None of the links have product for sale! Some of those links only allude to firearms reloading.
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Jerry, you're not looking hard enough. These companies do sell components. The company from New Zealand, for example, clearly has bullets and prices listed for both .338, .375, .408, and .416 cals.

The others do have bullets available but you have to contact them, for what ever reason. Chey-Tac itself sells components as well.

How many cents per rd X how many millions of rds??????? And that is just for training. Oh, they will also have to retrofit EVERY BARRETT rifle, offer armourers courses, ballistics classes, sniper systems training, parts, accessories, manuals, CD/ DVD whatevers. Even a bunch of T shirts....

The real money has been and will always be with the military contracts. The key is getting the rights to the product. Barrett has no rights to the BMG nor any other cartridge for that matter. With the 416B, they control the rifle, the cartridge and have their fingers in the components.

However, right now Uncle Sam isn't writting any cheques so the civi market is the 'main' event. Barrett is taking yet another gamble on pushing a cartridge/platform before it is officially adopted. One of the first on the 6.8SPC bandwagon. Hope it pans out for them some way.
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I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at. It's been documented more than once that this cartridge was primarily designed for a civilian market so if .50 BMG rifles were relegated to US Title II status at least the .416 would be available to keep product flowing in the hands of civilians.

Imagine the lucrative position Barrett will have placed his company in if .50 BMG is banned or highly restricted? Almost all of his competition would fall by the way-side leaving him with the only readily available "big gun" on the market.

I'm not sure why you think Barrett is taking a gamble if the US military doesn't adopt the .416 when they're (2) distinctly different markets? Barrett will sell his .50's to the military and his .416's to civilians. He's basically hedging his bets that he'll still have a business left to run if .50's are banned.

If it wasn't for the civilian market, Barrett wouldn't be here today without it regardless of what military contracts he has. Eventually, those contracts are fulfilled and the production line halts. What happens when the contracts are finished? Fold up shop?

As for sources of info, just pick up some popular tactical and hunting/rifle mags. There will be articles published soon enough. Maybe look at the Barrett mag and an Alaskan Brown bear hunt.
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Well, one of the biggest gripes of .416 owners is that there is no hunting ammunition being made available for this cartridge. They want it, but Barrett isn't supplying it.

Relaoding, you say? Well, that would be great except for the fact Barrett has not been even remotely co-operative with reloading component manufacturers in developing reload data for the cartridge or making brass cases and bullets available.

You may recall that Barrett has claimed that his company developed a proprietary secret powder formulation for the .416 that he won't share with anyone else. Sounds like Colonel Sanders "eleven herbs and spices" or the "Cadbury Secret" to me.

So, Jerry. When are you going to develop a .338 Mystic?
 
At any rate, raving about anything to do with Barrett is so very pointless. Who gives a #### about Barrett anyway?? It's like talking about the nieghbors and their toys, none of which we can ever have. Cheytac, if the caliber is great or not, we're not going to see any up here anyways.

Since we're talking about guns we'll never get to own, whos going down to the Shot Show this year? I'm positive there will be a whole lot of what we can't have down there this year.
 
Ever wonder why the 338 Lapua came to be? Simply, the US has been looking for a BMG replacement for decades. This prompted a study and development of all manner of smaller cals in 338, 375, etc.

In its most likely package, some enterprising US business went over to Lapua to help with final development and production. The US business dropped the project, Lapua picked it up.

20+ yrs later, Lapua may just get that funcky NATO cross on their brass. Any word yet if it is going to get formal designation? Enough countries use it.

Like the on again, off again saga of US army small arms (6.8SPC, SCAR etc), politics and money have scrubbed many worthy programs for questionable end uses. But it sometimes gives us cool brass to wildcat and rifles to dream about.

The 416 Barrett is the lastest attempt at allowing the BMG to pass on for the infantry. Who knows if the Pentagon will bite?

As for developing load data, likely take a couple of weekends and an Oehler strain guage tool. Dies are available from Lee and Barnes may just part with some slugs soon enough. After all, civilians reload and "this was designed for the civi market".

I have built a 338 Mystic barreled action, bedding block. Even fireformed some brass. Stock is still pending. Decided to pursue smaller cals (6.5 and 7 Mystic) mostly due to costs and a busted shoulder. Performance will be similar to the 338 Edge and near identical to the 338 Tomahawk. I know what its capable of (300gr MK around 3000/3100fps).

I even have a custom set of Lee collet dies to use. Fun to have a set of dies stamped for your 'better mousetrap'.

I think the big products this year at SHOT will be OPTICS (rifles are getting boring). The US has been on a buying spree and hard to imagine this sector letting EOTech, Leupold, Aimpoint and Trijicon have all the fun.

The new Nikon Monarch X is apparently even better then the 'Tactical' model it is replacing which did very well in the market place. 1/2 the price of a Luppy Mk4.

Looking to see if there are any new LR capable scopes with hash mark etched glass reticles and lots of elevation. Crappy $100 Chinese scopes have these features, let's see if the better manf will follow.

Just started designing a base to get me at least 100min of elevation. Hopefully, closer to 200min. We shall see.....

Jerry
 
Dressed like skate-boarding rappers and armed with FN-C1's and PGW T-wolfs our army over-run the US in 12-24hours. We'd just bait them with bags of "Piggy Puffs" and caches of grits & gravy.
 
Ever wonder why the 338 Lapua came to be? Simply, the US has been looking for a BMG replacement for decades. This prompted a study and development of all manner of smaller cals in 338, 375, etc.
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I'm afraid you are incorrect on your assertions regarding the development of the .338 Lapua. It had absolutely nothing to do with replacing the .50 BMG.

It started out in the 1980's as a US Navy project with Crane and NAVSPEC to increase sniping capabilities beyond the useful range of 7.62 based sniper systems. The prevailing thought at that time was that they wanted something with more reach than 7.62 or the readily available .300 WM.

Originally, the development started with a .338/.404 Jeffrey wildcat (actually, it was .416 Rigby). While results were promissing, the cases weren't strong enough to handle the pressure. The ballistic goal (recalling from memory here) was to get a 250gr. match grade bullet to the desired 2,950 fps range.

As time passed and development money ran short, the project was abandoned and eventually Lapua picked up on the idea and refined it by designing their brass around the pressures needed to meet that ballistic goal.

This is the coles notes version of what happed. There are some really decent articles from the past (Tactical Shooter Magazine) going in great details regarding the .338 LM's development.

If interested, I'll try to find these articles from old T.S. issues. If I find them, I'll scan them and send it to interested parties.

I'm sure Peter at Hirsch could enlighten us some as well as he is thoroughly versed on this subject.

Great work on the Mystic, Jerry!
 
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Thanks for the info. The articles I read indicated the desire to 'downsize' the BMG. No biggie. But there still is a trend to get rid of the BMG for sniper use. Whether it happens or not, who knows?

Ironic, that the 338/404 Jefferies is now readily available in the RUM case ie Cdn Imperial, Edge, Mystic, RUM. Work was also done on the 338-416 Rigby case which has become a darling in the LR hunting world (300gr MK 3100 to 3250fps).

You got the ballistics goal correct and why the Lapua ammo is rated as such. The 250gr Scenar near 3000fps is a thing of beauty to watch at 1 mile.

But then so is a 300gr MK going that fast.....

Jerry
 
2bad4u2, you are in the right church wrong pew in that the concept was based on the .416 Rigby, otherwise looks good.

ATB,

Peter
 
It's strange that the 408 Cheytac is deamed a weapon of war therefore making it non-exportable to Canada. Yet I haven't seen any pics of these guns over-seas. I would find it hard to believe that Since R. Barrett is in bed with the US Military, they'd have any of those guns in circulation unless someone in the whitehouse has shares in Cheytac. I'll be taking a close look at that firearm while I'm down there this year. I think the mag fed action has merit with the collaspable stock.
 
You will have a shock when you take a close look at the Windrunner.

It's an overgrown........SAVAGE

Take down is exactly the same barrel nut and all.

But we would love to have pics of the toys. When is it?

Jerry
 
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