Going to the dark side for some ammo advice.

CZ Shooter

CZ Shooter

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Allright...first a little background:
I'm a life long 7.62x39, rock and lock platform guy.
I have nothing against the AR or the 5.56 caliber whatsoever, it just never really appealed to me.

However, there is one rifle that caught my eye recently and it is literally a 180 degree departure from what I'm used to...
So much so, that it migt be considered too futuristic even for some of the AR crowd?..lol

So I had me couple vodka shots to calm the nerves, before I did the unthinkable and actually clicked on the mysterious "black and green rifles" forum button...:D

The rifle in question is Tavor X95...I never cared for the odd looking bulpup designs, but I find this one to be strangely attractive..kind of like the ugly chick, which you never really looked at, until you did and then you realized she's not that ugly at all.

I also do like the idea of full size barrel in a short package, which should translate into more velocity over similar lenght conventional configuration.

Now that I sufficiently explained my entrance into this no doubt upstanding forum full of knowledgeable AR people, I would like to emphasise, that I come in peace.
But I do have a question about a topic, that has been a great source of frustration for me:

This whole 5.56/223 willy nilly interchangability is driving me nuts..
Just about every expert article I can find on this topic gives me the impression, that while firing 223 out of 5.56 chamber is OK, the other way around is a very bad idea due to different pressures and different leade..
Some even go as far as to use words like "catastrophic" or "potentional hand grenade"...

This is why I'm somewhat stunned, when some vendors advertise the Tavor as a 223, others as 5.56.
I'm even more stunned, when I see a box of Barnaul ammo, which reads:
"223 (5.56×45)".

Now I would understand, if it were the other way around and if it said "5.56x45 (223)", but based on the info that I gathered so far, the "223 (5.56x45)" feels about the same level of wrong, as a "38 Special (357 Magnum)" on a box of wheelgun ammo.

Another issue that keeps coming up is the fact, that while shooting 223 out of a 5.56 chamber is perfectly safe, speed and reliability is sacrificed due to the lower pressure loadings of the 223.
I fail to understand why anyone would want to feed 223 into their 5.56 chamber just for that reason alone...yet based on the general chatter, none of this seems to be an issue?

I mean based on the info which I was able to gather, there clearly is a distinct difference between them 2 cartridges, yet nobody seems to be bothered by this, at least when judging by the way they are so freely interchanged by manufacturers and shooters alike?
I have seen posts in which someone starts talking about their rifle as a 5.56, which then becomes a 223 and ends up being a 5.56 again without even flinching...
That kind of reminds me the passage from George Orwells 1984 book, in which the speaker on the stage changes track without even pausing, except all the names are now different.
As I said before..this kind of stuff drives me nuts.

Could someone please shed some light on this for me?
 
X95's barrel is stamped 5.56 Nato.

223 and 5.56 are sufficiently interchangeable (subject to caveats you mentioned) with little to no impact on accuracy/reliability that most users don't mind using 223 in 5.56 chambers and manufacturers feel free to use 223(5.56x45) markings on boxes.
 
You are overthinking things. Just buy the Tavor, it's a phenomenal firearm that you won't regret purchasing. It doesn't matter if it's advertised as being a .223 or a 5.56. It has a 5.56 chamber. You can buy either type of ammo (if you can find any right now :( ) and shoot it through the Tavor and the difference will be negligible.

Buy, shoot, enjoy!! Don't overthink it.

Cheers
 
jiffx2781 said:
You are overthinking things. Just buy the Tavor, it's a phenomenal firearm that you won't regret purchasing. It doesn't matter if it's advertised as being a .223 or a 5.56. It has a 5.56 chamber. You can buy either type of ammo (if you can find any right now :( ) and shoot it through the Tavor and the difference will be negligible.

Buy, shoot, enjoy!! Don't overthink it.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Thank you for the reply.
I'm not trying to "overthink" this per say (I hope)...I'm just absolutelly stunned by all the expert articles warnings (presumably written by people who know a thing or two about guns), which are clearly stating that putting the 5.56 into a 223 chamber is a dangerous idea.
Yet nobody seems to take notice...it's almost like there are 2 parralel universes or I'm in some kind of a twighlit zone..:)
Anyway...hope nobody is taking this the wrong way, as I'm not tryig to stir-up #### on here.

I'm the type of a person who is always trying to make sense out of things, such as the oposing information on this topic.
If something makes no sense, I get frustrated and start digging deep to get to the bottom...lol
 
If you want to make things even more interesting, there is some models with 223 stamped on it, but the manufacturer will say its actually 556.
They do this to circumvent some form of export rules/laws.
Easier to export a 223 sporting caliber than a 556 military caliber.
 
In a modern firearm, there's really no safety problems with interchangeable use. Use whatever's cheap. The rifle was designed to be minute of humanoid out to about 400m. .223 or 5.56mm won't affect a grouping that size.
 
CZ Shooter said:
.I'm just absolutelly stunned by all the expert articles warnings (presumably written by people who know a thing or two about guns)
Click to expand...

The key phrase is presumably. Back in the day when gun magazine writers were the gatekeepers of knowledge and their gun reviews were were basically paid advertisements, this was a commonly echo'd statement. But how many of them had taken the measurements, or attempted to destroy a .223 gun by running 5.56 through it, or even look for signs of excess pressures? That's right, zip.

These days, we have madlads on social media willing to test their firearms to the point destruction right before our eyes, and so think nothing of actually throwing some 5.56 in their .223 guns just to see what happens- and the results are utterly unspectacular.

luckygunner . com/labs/5-56-vs-223/

The rounds are, for all intents and purposes, interchangeable.

Regardless, the X95 is a solidly made rifle that will eat anything you feed it until the end of time.
 
I had a X95 with 15,000 rounds down the pipe that still ran like a champ.

Some 556, mostly 223 but they are very well built and crazy reliable. Mine played up once where it wouldn't cycle reliably but when I got home and cleaned it I understood why - the thing was filthy!

After a lot of playing around I found that it shoots best with 75 or 77 grain bullets.

I'd buy another in a heartbeat.
 
.223 markings are just because some countries don't want citizens to own guns in "military calibers".

A 5.56 rifle can be banned. While the exact same rifle marked .223 can be perfectly legal.
 
Thank you guys, I apprecciate all the input on this issue.
So the word on the street is.... not to worry about the differences, as they are greatly exaggerated by the internet gun articles writing crowd?
 
If you want people to listen to you, the best way to get attention is to stir up an emotional response.

Most of the differences are largely a result of using different units or standards to measure safety between different organizations, countries, authorities, etc. If you really boil it all down and convert the numbers and the data to all the same units and reconcile those standardized values against the safe operating envelopes of a firearm, many problems disappear. This is one of those problems.
 
From a reloading standpoint, the sizing dies are exactly the same. You might want to use a small base resizer die for a semi auto, but that has nothing to do with the caliber. If the dies are marked 5.56 at all, it will generally be .223/5.56.

When buying go/no go gauges a few years ago, I wanted a set of .223 and a set of 5.56. I was told by the manufacturer that they are exactly the same gauges.

There is talk of pressure differential, but again if you research this it often comes down to different testing methods. SAAMI versus the military testing protocols. (Much like the difference in .308/7.62. One being measured in PSI and one in CUP has caused confusion, discussion, and much debate over the years)
 
cancer said:
If you want people to listen to you, the best way to get attention is to stir up an emotional response.

Most of the differences are largely a result of using different units or standards to measure safety between different organizations, countries, authorities, etc. If you really boil it all down and convert the numbers and the data to all the same units and reconcile those standardized values against the safe operating envelopes of a firearm, many problems disappear. This is one of those problems.
Click to expand...

That actually makes a lot of sense...different authorities using different methods and possibly working with different units...kind of like the helmet standards or car crash testing, or even the octane rating between here and the EU countries etc...
I will sleep easy now...lol.
 
KePet said:
From a reloading standpoint, the sizing dies are exactly the same. You might want to use a small base resizer die for a semi auto, but that has nothing to do with the caliber. If the dies are marked 5.56 at all, it will generally be .223/5.56.

When buying go/no go gauges a few years ago, I wanted a set of .223 and a set of 5.56. I was told by the manufacturer that they are exactly the same gauges.

There is talk of pressure differential, but again if you research this it often comes down to different testing methods. SAAMI versus the military testing protocols. (Much like the difference in .308/7.62. One being measured in PSI and one in CUP has caused confusion, discussion, and much debate over the years)
Click to expand...

Much like the other poster, it is all starting to make sense now.
Thanks to everyone once again...BTW I do like your signature.
I always say that optimist is really just a pessimist with bad information...lol
 
CZ Shooter said:
Thank you guys, I apprecciate all the input on this issue.
So the word on the street is.... not to worry about the differences, as they are greatly exaggerated by the internet gun articles writing crowd?
Click to expand...

Yup, pretty much. Put it this way, I don't hesitate to put 556 in my mostly plastic RDB. Sure it says 223 on the barrel but in reality the chamber is actually 556. Like a few others have pointed out, exporting a firearm with 223 on the side seems to be easier since its not a scary Nato assault rifle.
 
My .223 chambered Ruger American pops primers on all the varieties of 5.56mm that my Wilde chambered ARs happily eat. There are differences and your mileage may vary.
 
Gunnerlove said:
My .223 chambered Ruger American pops primers on all the varieties of 5.56mm that my Wilde chambered ARs happily eat. There are differences and your mileage may vary.
Click to expand...

That would probably have more to do with your trigger spring being stronger, made to ignite military (5.56) primers which tend to be harder than civilian (.223) primers. Just like many people get light primer strikes trying to shoot 5.56 in .223 bolt guns.
 
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