Been there - done that with the FN C1. It looked foolish and we felt foolish doing it.
Lee-Enfield No. 4 spike bayonet combat use
- Thread starter albertacowboy
- Start date
Been there - done that with the FN C1. It looked foolish and we felt foolish doing it.
- Location
- Western Manitoba
I do not know the "drill" - never done any "bayonet dance". Finally started to acquire some. Got a MKII for No. 4 spike bayonet to go on full wood No. 4 Long Branch - sheath and frog on the way. Got a Swede for their M94 carbine - totally different - like a small sword - when mounted the sharpened cutting edge is up. Have seen, but never owned, a version for the M1917, similar to the one for SMLE, but not the same - cutting edge is down. Maybe pointy sharp end is the important part, when used as meant to?
I read the Brits were surprised to learn when the conflict at the Falklands was won just how much both sides used the bayonet in battle not just to poke prisoners who were a little slow ..it was a viscous campaign at first before the conscripts arrived and the Argi pilots were quite skillfull the Brits were lucky a number of bombs dropped didn't go off
This is a quote out of Barry Broadfoots book "Six War Years", the best oral history of Canadians in WWII IMHO. It doesnt specifically reference what type of rifle and bayonet was used, but sure sounds like an Enfield spike bayonet. It is from the chapter titled Training.
What a bayonet can do
... I know what a bayonet can do, though. We were taking training in Shilo and on this obstacle course there was a fence. Not too high, I'd say five feet perhaps. This chap missed or slipped or made a miscalculation, and instead of landing on his feet he fell to his knees and his bayonet went into his belly. For a minute we didnt know what was wrong with him, but when we started looing, he'd punctured himself. It was a tiny hole abut the size of a pencil and a bit blue around edges. By the time the ambulance came and got him back to the camp hospital he was dead. I cant remember ever being so shocked, because the guy wasnt hurt and wanted to finish the course with us.
The medical orderly at the hospital said the doctor told him the bayonet went in only about an inch and a half, into that soft part of the belly. But he was dead in maybe five minutes. Ten at the most.
Eaglelord17
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Sault Ste. Marie
The whole reason for the No 4. being a spike has likely more to do with production than anything else. Easy to make a spike bayonet, more expensive and difficult to make a sword bayonet (plus its much more basic mounting hardware). And for the record they originally were cruciform much like the French 1886 pattern bayonet, they just decided it was easier to make it as a simple spike instead.
Bayonets shouldn’t be sharp, great way to get a bayonet stuck in something.
Bayonets shouldn’t be sharp, great way to get a bayonet stuck in something.
Brutus
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I never felt foolish taking bayonet drill or pugil stick training either in battle school. I am sure many of us remember foot patrol doctrine as well. Was there to instill confidence plus a desire to close with your enemy.
Is just part of our job if required to do so.
Nothing more nothing less.
Is just part of our job if required to do so.
Nothing more nothing less.
Thank you sir for bringing this great classic
Bayonets were used in Dieppe Raid for sure , the Royal Hamilton Light Infantry used bayonets when clearing out the Casino beyond the beach but not spike bayonets as they were equipped with the SMLE rifle with Pattern 1907 sword bayonet
I can tell you from personal experience that it doesn't make any difference in the outcome or the disabling of an individual if they get impaled with either a blade bayonet or a spike bayonet.
The muscles in the inflicted area try to contract around the impaling object and when it's withdrawn, the pain is incredible and will not go away. The pain is just barely tolerable with a shot of morphine to the area and you better hope someone can stop the bleeding, internally and externally quickly or you're going to bleed out in a few minutes.
There's a very good reason infantrymen are terrified by the thought of a face to face altercation where fixed bayonets are deployed.
I have a bayo induced scar on my left, inner thigh. When the fellow stuck it into my leg, he was going for my lower stomach and the only reason he got my inner thigh was that I was able to deflect his thrust. Not a chance in hell of a complete parry.
When this sort of #### is going down, it happens at light speed. Even if you hopefully have an Adrenalin rush going on, it's almost impossible to keep track of.
I don't care how much training an individual gets, the outcome of such conflicts is always a toss up. Skill, a sharp mind and fantastic coordination, combined with a blessing from your favorite Deity will determine the outcome.
The fellow that got me, was thankfully dispatched by a compadre, before he could pull the bayo out. When the bayo was detached from the rifle, the medic slowly withdrew it. Pain, just barely describes it. Every muscle in that leg was in spasm mode and if felt like my leg was being cut in half.
When the blade was out, and the bleeding slowed to a trickle, the Femoral Artery was visible and bulging every time my heart beat, which was frequently at the time. It felt like I was having a massive Heart attack at the same time. Yes, I was pumped with Adrenalin and likely panicking at the same time.
That medic was incredibly experienced. He told me to STFU and let him work. He used the very large army ants that proliferated in the region to stitch that wound back together. Proper ring staplers weren't around back then and suture/thread was in short supply. Not only that, but the ant pincers, even though they stung like heck, had a natural bacteria killer on them.
He used 9 of those ants to stitch up that wound. The heads of the six he used internally are still in there, but over the last 5 decades have become mushy and no longer ache when it gets to cold.
Now, also from personal experience, whoever decided to issue a spike bayonet, should have had one of them shoved up his/her back end. There are a few things that they "might" come in handy for, than their intended battle purpose, but a proper blade, with a proper handle would have made life a lot better for a troopie in the field.
This is just IMHO of course
Brutus, not dissing you one bit. I never had the opportunity to go through any sort of training with a bay equipped rifle, other than in a direct, in your face conflict.
I fully understand how training and practice effect reaction and response.
The thing is, when you're confronting the person who is doing his utmost to stick that thing into you, up close and personal, you see his fear, feel his angst, maybe even his hate and things go to heck in a hurry.
The muscles in the inflicted area try to contract around the impaling object and when it's withdrawn, the pain is incredible and will not go away. The pain is just barely tolerable with a shot of morphine to the area and you better hope someone can stop the bleeding, internally and externally quickly or you're going to bleed out in a few minutes.
There's a very good reason infantrymen are terrified by the thought of a face to face altercation where fixed bayonets are deployed.
I have a bayo induced scar on my left, inner thigh. When the fellow stuck it into my leg, he was going for my lower stomach and the only reason he got my inner thigh was that I was able to deflect his thrust. Not a chance in hell of a complete parry.
When this sort of #### is going down, it happens at light speed. Even if you hopefully have an Adrenalin rush going on, it's almost impossible to keep track of.
I don't care how much training an individual gets, the outcome of such conflicts is always a toss up. Skill, a sharp mind and fantastic coordination, combined with a blessing from your favorite Deity will determine the outcome.
The fellow that got me, was thankfully dispatched by a compadre, before he could pull the bayo out. When the bayo was detached from the rifle, the medic slowly withdrew it. Pain, just barely describes it. Every muscle in that leg was in spasm mode and if felt like my leg was being cut in half.
When the blade was out, and the bleeding slowed to a trickle, the Femoral Artery was visible and bulging every time my heart beat, which was frequently at the time. It felt like I was having a massive Heart attack at the same time. Yes, I was pumped with Adrenalin and likely panicking at the same time.
That medic was incredibly experienced. He told me to STFU and let him work. He used the very large army ants that proliferated in the region to stitch that wound back together. Proper ring staplers weren't around back then and suture/thread was in short supply. Not only that, but the ant pincers, even though they stung like heck, had a natural bacteria killer on them.
He used 9 of those ants to stitch up that wound. The heads of the six he used internally are still in there, but over the last 5 decades have become mushy and no longer ache when it gets to cold.
Now, also from personal experience, whoever decided to issue a spike bayonet, should have had one of them shoved up his/her back end. There are a few things that they "might" come in handy for, than their intended battle purpose, but a proper blade, with a proper handle would have made life a lot better for a troopie in the field.
This is just IMHO of course
Brutus, not dissing you one bit. I never had the opportunity to go through any sort of training with a bay equipped rifle, other than in a direct, in your face conflict.
I fully understand how training and practice effect reaction and response.
The thing is, when you're confronting the person who is doing his utmost to stick that thing into you, up close and personal, you see his fear, feel his angst, maybe even his hate and things go to heck in a hurry.
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Gerald, I've only talked to one other person who got stuck with a bayonet. He was a Korea vet in1 PPCLI who was stabbed in the groin by a Chinese soldier. It got him light duty for life; no parades, PT or field time. His only job was showing up to crank the Gestetner machine in the battalion orderly room.
Depending on where in the groin area, I can fully understand why.
4cm to the right and I would be speaking with a much higher voice.
I didn't have much choice. I had a day to let it set up and then, with it wrapped with a leather strap, almost tight enough to cut off the circulation in the leg, I got to ride in the back of our one and only truck. The bouncing was worse than walking with a crutch, so I walked. Thankfully we stopped a bit earlier for a few days as I wasn't the only one with wounds.
I don't miss that sh!t one bit.
buzzmagoo, if that was intended for me, thankyou but I'm sorry to disappoint you. Likely you wouldn't have approved of my particular service.
