Lee-Enfield No. 4 spike bayonet combat use

This is the first time I have ever heard of criticism of the spike bayonet on the No.4 service rifle for effectiveness in active service.
Funny how the Canadians issued the bayonet years after WW2 for the Korean conflict when other designs were available. So the
collective experience was positive. John
 
This is the first time I have ever heard of criticism of the spike bayonet on the No.4 service rifle for effectiveness in active service.
Funny how the Canadians issued the bayonet years after WW2 for the Korean conflict when other designs were available. So the
collective experience was positive. John

There was a very good reason they switched over to the No 9 bayonet, although it wasn't much better as a utility tool.
 
Or, that the Cubans played a significant part.

Grizz

There were all sorts of players on that fiasco. It was a civil war that likely could have been averted. Many nations are very likely embarrassed by what little or large their participation was in that conflict. A lot of people lost fortunes and their lives, a lot made millions and the infrastructure suffered greatly. The present system is about as corrupt and inefficient as it gets.
 
There were all sorts of players on that fiasco. It was a civil war that likely could have been averted. Many nations are very likely embarrassed by what little or large their participation was in that conflict. A lot of people lost fortunes and their lives, a lot made millions and the infrastructure suffered greatly. The present system is about as corrupt and inefficient as it gets.

Last so called modern conflict cia admitted hiring mercenaries. To add to the occassion mostly this conflict happened during 100 year drought. Also televised execution of captured mercenaries. Gary something or other?
Fun fun fun times....
 
I can tell you from personal experience that it doesn't make any difference in the outcome or the disabling of an individual if they get impaled with either a blade bayonet or a spike bayonet.

The muscles in the inflicted area try to contract around the impaling object and when it's withdrawn, the pain is incredible and will not go away. The pain is just barely tolerable with a shot of morphine to the area and you better hope someone can stop the bleeding, internally and externally quickly or you're going to bleed out in a few minutes.

There's a very good reason infantrymen are terrified by the thought of a face to face altercation where fixed bayonets are deployed.

I have a bayo induced scar on my left, inner thigh. When the fellow stuck it into my leg, he was going for my lower stomach and the only reason he got my inner thigh was that I was able to deflect his thrust. Not a chance in hell of a complete parry.

When this sort of #### is going down, it happens at light speed. Even if you hopefully have an Adrenalin rush going on, it's almost impossible to keep track of.

I don't care how much training an individual gets, the outcome of such conflicts is always a toss up. Skill, a sharp mind and fantastic coordination, combined with a blessing from your favorite Deity will determine the outcome.

The fellow that got me, was thankfully dispatched by a compadre, before he could pull the bayo out. When the bayo was detached from the rifle, the medic slowly withdrew it. Pain, just barely describes it. Every muscle in that leg was in spasm mode and if felt like my leg was being cut in half.

When the blade was out, and the bleeding slowed to a trickle, the Femoral Artery was visible and bulging every time my heart beat, which was frequently at the time. It felt like I was having a massive Heart attack at the same time. Yes, I was pumped with Adrenalin and likely panicking at the same time.

That medic was incredibly experienced. He told me to STFU and let him work. He used the very large army ants that proliferated in the region to stitch that wound back together. Proper ring staplers weren't around back then and suture/thread was in short supply. Not only that, but the ant pincers, even though they stung like heck, had a natural bacteria killer on them.

He used 9 of those ants to stitch up that wound. The heads of the six he used internally are still in there, but over the last 5 decades have become mushy and no longer ache when it gets to cold.

Now, also from personal experience, whoever decided to issue a spike bayonet, should have had one of them shoved up his/her back end. There are a few things that they "might" come in handy for, than their intended battle purpose, but a proper blade, with a proper handle would have made life a lot better for a troopie in the field.

This is just IMHO of course

Brutus, not dissing you one bit. I never had the opportunity to go through any sort of training with a bay equipped rifle, other than in a direct, in your face conflict.

I fully understand how training and practice effect reaction and response.

The thing is, when you're confronting the person who is doing his utmost to stick that thing into you, up close and personal, you see his fear, feel his angst, maybe even his hate and things go to heck in a hurry.

Wow.....just wow
 
my understanding is that bayonets only really got used for prisoner escorts......nobody like to get stuck....

Not hardly. There's a very good reason SKS/AK47 had their bayos permanently attached. Bayonets aren't cheap to make and a nation incurs a major expense when they purchase them.

In some of the third world nations I've been to, the armed soldiers and even some of the police don't have ammunition for their weapons. They depend on their bayonets. Some are actually more comfortable with their use, than with ammunition in their firearms. They're taught almost from birth to use and appreciate a blade.

Comparing a huge part of humanity to North American standards????
 
Or, that the Cubans played a significant part.

Grizz


When the Cubans first went to Angola, they came with very old trucks, T34/85 tanks with upgraded engines. They weren't so much destroyed as they broke down in the heat, from lack of maintenance. The Soviets didn't want to be embarrassed so they took all of the T34/85 tanks and parked them in a huge field, along with the falling apart trucks. They were replaced with new Russian supplied T55 tanks and 6x6 Zil diesel powered cargo trucks.

The Cubans were brought in to prop up the UNITA government, mostly rebels. They officially arrived in 1975 but were only there for two years.

They were actually there in relatively large numbers by 1968, in the form of military advisors.

As for killing Mercs, some of them deserved it. They raped and pillaged on a regular basis. Many became very wealthy. Many killed each other, battling for the loot.

The best ones were the Portuguese Angolan land owners. They were fighting for their homes and families.

The Americans wanted just enough conflict so that the coffee was being harvested and the mines were still producing. Angola has a lot of natural resources and many nations wanted to snatch and grab. The UN was there as observers at least once while I was there and I believe four times in total.

They tried to keep things in check but there were never enough of them and they weren't allowed to intervene.
 
When the Cubans first went to Angola, they came with very old trucks, T34/85 tanks with upgraded engines. They weren't so much destroyed as they broke down in the heat, from lack of maintenance. The Soviets didn't want to be embarrassed so they took all of the T34/85 tanks and parked them in a huge field, along with the falling apart trucks. They were replaced with new Russian supplied T55 tanks and 6x6 Zil diesel powered cargo trucks.

The Cubans were brought in to prop up the UNITA government, mostly rebels. They officially arrived in 1975 but were only there for two years.

They were actually there in relatively large numbers by 1968, in the form of military advisors.

As for killing Mercs, some of them deserved it. They raped and pillaged on a regular basis. Many became very wealthy. Many killed each other, battling for the loot.

The best ones were the Portuguese Angolan land owners. They were fighting for their homes and families.

The Americans wanted just enough conflict so that the coffee was being harvested and the mines were still producing. Angola has a lot of natural resources and many nations wanted to snatch and grab. The UN was there as observers at least once while I was there and I believe four times in total.

They tried to keep things in check but there were never enough of them and they weren't allowed to intervene.

Very interesting bearhunter.

Thank you for your insite.
 
Not hardly. There's a very good reason SKS/AK47 had their bayos permanently attached. Bayonets aren't cheap to make and a nation incurs a major expense when they purchase them.

In some of the third world nations I've been to, the armed soldiers and even some of the police don't have ammunition for their weapons. They depend on their bayonets. Some are actually more comfortable with their use, than with ammunition in their firearms. They're taught almost from birth to use and appreciate a blade.

Comparing a huge part of humanity to North American standards????

I thought we were talking about the No.4's spike bayonet not com.bloc weapons and third world usage....
 
I thought we were talking about the No.4's spike bayonet not com.bloc weapons and third world usage....

We were, but a lot of Chinese SKS and I believe a few AK47 and a lot of French bolt action rifles also used a spike type bayonet, with a cruciform pattern.

A lot of third world nations still issue the No4 rifles, with spike bayonets.
 
I know Pakistan made use of them until quite recently....not sure if india ever went with a No4 since it seems they built No1mk111 style rifle into the 60s
 
When the Cubans first went to Angola, they came with very old trucks, T34/85 tanks with upgraded engines. They weren't so much destroyed as they broke down in the heat, from lack of maintenance. The Soviets didn't want to be embarrassed so they took all of the T34/85 tanks and parked them in a huge field, along with the falling apart trucks. They were replaced with new Russian supplied T55 tanks and 6x6 Zil diesel powered cargo trucks.
.


Dont know if you have seen this post or not but based on your service there thought you (and others) would be interested in it:

T-34 in Angola: 1970s / 1980s

https://wwiiafterwwii.wordpress.com/2015/09/06/t-34-in-angola-1970s-1980s/

bXYErWC.jpg
 
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The drill (for the C1) was to fire a round if a bayonet is stuck to dislodge, I always wondered why bother getting all stabby instead of just putting a round into the guy in the first place.


This classic vid still breaks me up, sort of has a Monty Python vibe going on.

Agreed, and that vid needs to be followed with a classic pic. ;)

Stop being silly.jpg
 

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