Winchester pcmr carbine

joey.45

joey.45

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Location
Kootenays B.C.
I have this rifle and it was a never sell gun. I cut my teeth on one of these hunting black tails on Vancouver island. I can't use open sights anymore and this one sits. The pics tell a lot. It has been used but not abused. The bore is bright and shinny. As far as I can tell it has everything as issued except the front sight hood. The stamp on the receiver is very visible. The one on the butt stock is faded. There is a tie crack starting but still solid. The bluing is worn and faded. It has lots of hunting scratches and dings. I'm pretty sure that the stock finish is original. Sling and front mount is military original.serial number in the 133 range. What I'm looking for is a value. Any help from you guys is appreciated.IMG_1043.jpgIMG_1044.jpgIMG_1046.jpgIMG_1047.jpg
 

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If you would like to sell the sling and swivels please pm me! I have my great grandfathers pcmr and its MINT.I have no sling and it doesnt have a front sight hood. Perhaps it didnt come with these originally i dont know, and i have no way to find out. But id be interested in finding these items
 
Pricing on these seems to be all over the map ie they seem to range in the $500-2000 range.


Factors which impact value I offer are:

Originality - yours appears original and unmolested although you should have a C broad arrow on the front stock (NB...I see it now I think). Originality means not refurbed, reblued, bubba'ed. No major parts replaced and applicable markings original and intact.

Condition - yours is showing bluing loss and wear. You mention the bore is good so that is a plus. They all do to an extent however yours is worn more than some that I have seen, The cracks, bluing loss and finish wear impact value

Sling swivels - as mentioned above, there were several options with these. Some had none, some had the mag clip on style, and some had the "locally manufactured armourer" style front band. This armourer done type is the most attractive to most collectors however they are not impossible to recreate so one must balance this as being original as per the first factor above.

Paperwork/Provenance - These were sold to the guys at the end of the war and a receipt was issued. This paper with the correct serial number along with the rifle impacts value as well.

I have seen some beat looking ones which the seller wanted $1800 or more. Not sure if they ever got that.

If it was mine I would be looking for around $1000 but this is just one man's opinion.

Edit: I did notice that you indicated the serial starts with 138 range. This is a high number from what I have seen. Bert Hartman in the US had a list of these and the majority fall in on the 131-134 range. He had nothing higher than 1342955 last I saw. You may want to double check the first three on your rifle and see if it maybe 133###x?
 
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Regarding Winchester 1894 carbines issued to the PCMR.....

According to "Pictorial History of the Pacific Coast Militia Rangers: British Columbia's Guerrilla Army 1942 - 1945" by David B. Clark. First Edition Oct 2013:

"The Winchester Repeating Arms Company has no records for the production run of Ranger Model 1894's during the years 1942 to 1945. ..... The bulk of the contract Ranger rifles are in the 1,330,000 serial number group from 1942. However, the highest serial number known is 1342930..... The lowest verified S/N is 1304192 made in 1941" [Page 124]

So, having a carbine in the 1,380,000 range would seem very unusual.

I'm fortunate to have a fairly decent example..... sn. 1,334,###

It has the C broad arrow stamps on the frame, fore-end and butt stock.

DSCN5819 1024768.jpg

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NAA.
 

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See pic. Not all of them had the sling swivels

wPn0DLn.jpg
 
Could it be possible that the OP's is a fake? Seems two sources have no documented examples of a serial number anywhere near that high?

Is there anything that would definitively prove it as legit other than a sales receipt post war?

(I'm not trying to say the OP faked it or anything, but its something to consider with any firearm that has some special story behind it that would make it worth more than the same rifle without the story.)

NAA said:
Regarding Winchester 1894 carbines issued to the PCMR.....

According to "Pictorial History of the Pacific Coast Militia Rangers: British Columbia's Guerrilla Army 1942 - 1945" by David B. Clark. First Edition Oct 2013:

"The Winchester Repeating Arms Company has no records for the production run of Ranger Model 1894's during the years 1942 to 1945. ..... The bulk of the contract Ranger rifles are in the 1,330,000 serial number group from 1942. However, the highest serial number known is 1342930..... The lowest verified S/N is 1304192 made in 1941" [Page 124]

So, having a carbine in the 1,380,000 range would seem very unusual.

I'm fortunate to have a fairly decent example..... sn. 1,334,###

It has the C broad arrow stamps on the frame, fore-end and butt stock.

View attachment 462876

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NAA.
Click to expand...

I'm a bit confused by your quote there. Are you saying there were rifles made during 42-45 and Winchester just has no records of what serial numbers were involved, or are you saying Winchester has no record of producing rifles for the Rangers in that timeframe?

I see online that Winchester does not have any serial number data for a bunch of years in the mid-40s.
 
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If you look close on the fore stock u will see a well worn c broadarrow ...strange things happen and I take info in books as a starting point ...I had a mint C2A1 that was 5 digits from the last know record according to Blake Stevens book of FALs who's to say that they ordered a couple more Winchester's a bit later on or maybe Winchester was a few short and made up the difference later it was war time .hell my buddy has 2 Long Branch rifles with the same sn who knows what happened there ...
 
I would think in all due respect mind you the OP needs to put his glasses on and take a second look.Looks like an original to me form way over here.A 3 sometimes looks like an 8.
Dave G
 
IIRC Winchester does not have 94 records between 1943-1947. I suppose technically someone could find a 1943-1947 produced winchester model 94 and stamp fake C broad arrows on it but rather unlikely. Further this rifle has the been there done it look. Butt stamp/forestock stamp is light/worn etc.

I suspect that the serial might be 133###x vs 138###x
 
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Interesting point on the photo's of both rifles offered here, one has the front sling band ahead of the factory barrel band and the other has it behind...wonder which one is assembled wrong.
 
fingers284 said:
Interesting point on the photo's of both rifles offered here, one has the front sling band ahead of the factory barrel band and the other has it behind...wonder which one is assembled wrong.
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I have two of them. One is in front of the barrel band and one has it behind. My other buddy has one with it behind the band.

It reckon it makes most sense that the hand made band would be behind (ie trigger side) of the factory barrel band. This would prevent the hand made one from sliding forward.

vKKHLZ9l.jpg
 
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NAA said:
The original ad said $1,100 shipped.
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OK thanks. Guys ask the "what 's it worth" question and then you never hear the end result and the price is changed to spf. I always wonder if I am off base or not as prices are always changing.

As an aside on the topic, has anyone ever seen a saddle ring carbines marked with government acceptance? I have seen one (possibly two) pics showing PCMR guys shooting SRCs. I suspect that being para-military there was some flexibility on using personal rifles?
 
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