A bunch of noob questions from a Canadian ex-pat

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realstuart

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Hi there gun nut community. I am a Canadian citizen ex-pat now living in America. I've never had a PAL issued to me and I have some questions about the process of obtaining one as a non-resident:

  • If all I want to do is purchase ammunition, I only need a PAL and not an RPAL, correct?
  • 2A on the PAL application asks "If you are licensed, indicate the class of firearms you now possess. Check all that apply" The thing is, I own no weapons nor have I ever owned any weapons in Canada. Here at my house in America, however, I have several that would be extremely taboo with Canadian law including several pistols, rifles, a sawed-off shotgun, several suppressors, multi 30 / 50 / 100 round magazines and (yes) a couple of full-auto sub-machine guns. I'm not licensed in Canada nor have I never been - so do I choose "I do not possess any firearms" or do I check "Non-Restricted" / "Restricted" / "Prohibited" given my arsenal here at home?
  • Does anyone have a sample of what the "letter of good conduct" needs to say? Is it just a background check showing no convictions, or does it need to actually be a "I am Officer X and I know Mr RealStuart and he is a good person" ? If so, I don't have the foggiest idea of where to get something like that. I don't even know if it exists.
  • Given COVID, can the CFSC be taken online? Are there any recommendations for providers that can deliver this remotely?
  • Can any of the actual PAL test be done online? I understand there is an in-person component, however can the non-written component be done online? If not, where is it typically administered? I'm not interested in joining a Canadian gun club.

Thank you so much for entertaining all of my questions. I am happy to provide any deeper clarification on any of the points I've mentioned above.

-Stuart
 
None of the firearms you currently possess are restricted/prohibited. Until you bring them across the border. If you don't plan on caring or discharging anything that would be classified as restricted in Canada. Then apply for the licance that suits your intent and check accordingly.

You will need to import restricted items to get a registration for them. Given they will all be banned soon you should keep them registered in the good ol US of A and keep them safe.
 
meveringham said:
None of the firearms you currently possess are restricted/prohibited. Until you bring them across the border. If you don't plan on caring or discharging anything that would be classified as restricted in Canada. Then apply for the licance that suits your intent and check accordingly.

You will need to import restricted items to get a registration for them. Given they will all be banned soon you should keep them registered in the good ol US of A and keep them safe.
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I appreciate the feedback, unfortunately it doesn't really answer the questions I had regarding getting a PAL...
 
1. yes you only need a PAL to buy ammo

2. You don't have any firearms. Your USA stash of guns is irrelevant

3. Not sure what letter of good conduct is. Ask them for clarification. That might just be the references. Ask a PAL instructor if you can't figure it out.

4. You can't challenge the test anymore. You can't do it remotely since there is a hands on portion. Good luck finding courses. Some are doing courses while some a too scared of their own shadow to do them

Welcome to Canada, our gun laws will frustrate you
 
Gnome75 said:
1. yes you only need a PAL to buy ammo

2. You don't have any firearms. Your USA stash of guns is irrelevant

3. Not sure what letter of good conduct is. Ask them for clarification. That might just be the references. Ask a PAL instructor if you can't figure it out.

4. You can't challenge the test anymore. You can't do it remotely since there is a hands on portion. Good luck finding courses. Some are doing courses while some a too scared of their own shadow to do them

Welcome to Canada, our gun laws will frustrate you
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ha! I really appreciate the information. What do you mean, though, by "Challenge the test" ?
 
What stonehorse said. Also don't completely write off bringing some of your guns here. Generally speaking full size and some compact handguns are fine. Most shotguns are good here too. Manually operated rifles will probably be fine. Don't even ask about suppressors, you will just upset people here. Generally speaking rifle mags can only hold 5rds and handguns 10rds. If you want to bring them here due to shortages put a rivet in them. Be careful asking questions about that, you may upset people.
 
Why go thru all the trouble if you “just want to buy ammo”? Oh wait....you are the US where there is a huge demand for ammo. I would not try exporting/importing without the proper licenses anyways.
 
You don't need a license to export, and you don't need a license to import if it is for personal use. Plus as I mentioned I own two submachine guns that get very hungry.
 
realstuart said:
You don't need a license to export, and you don't need a license to import if it is for personal use. Plus as I mentioned I own two submachine guns that get very hungry.
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Ok you must have lots of bucks if you own 2 “submachine guns” good luck with your imports/exports.
 
Yeah the pre-86 stuff is definitely spendy. Not sure why the quotations? They're both really fun to shoot, though.
 
realstuart said:
Hi there gun nut community. I am a Canadian citizen ex-pat now living in America. I've never had a PAL issued to me and I have some questions about the process of obtaining one as a non-resident:
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Reasonable question. You aren't the first, nor the last or seem to have any unusual circumstances, other than the good fortune (literally) of some of the things you've been able to acquire.

realstuart said:
If all I want to do is purchase ammunition, I only need a PAL and not an RPAL, correct?
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Yes. It is a condition of purchase to prove your identity and the PAL is something the stores use to prove eligibility to purchase ammunition. Legally possess too if I recall correctly.

realstuart said:
2A on the PAL application asks "If you are licensed, indicate the class of firearms you now possess. Check all that apply" The thing is, I own no weapons nor have I ever owned any weapons in Canada. Here at my house in America, however, I have several that would be extremely taboo with Canadian law including several pistols, rifles, a sawed-off shotgun, several suppressors, multi 30 / 50 / 100 round magazines and (yes) a couple of full-auto sub-machine guns. I'm not licensed in Canada nor have I never been - so do I choose "I do not possess any firearms" or do I check "Non-Restricted" / "Restricted" / "Prohibited" given my arsenal here at home?
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Those are Canadian classes, and can't apply internationally. As others have mentioned, there are some pieces you have mentioned which would not be allowed into Canada, but here's a phrase to research. Settlers Goods, is a catchall for personal belongings as a person settles into their life in Canada. If you were to arrive with a bunch of stuff, you have not had access to Canadian advice or approved facilities. Having some over capacity mags wouldn't work for Joe-Blow Sixpack resident of Canada, but might be a way to import then properly modify your possessions.

realstuart said:
Does anyone have a sample of what the "letter of good conduct" needs to say? Is it just a background check showing no convictions, or does it need to actually be a "I am Officer X and I know Mr RealStuart and he is a good person" ? If so, I don't have the foggiest idea of where to get something like that. I don't even know if it exists.
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In my understanding, there is no specific phrasing. You need someone a Canadian immigration or police worker would recognize as a position of authority to vouch in English on official letterhead that you've been a good boy, haven't broken the law where you've lived, and have been trusted by the county/state/federal government to possession firearms - per the existing laws. I'd think the Sheriff's office would be an ideal first stop. And yes, he is sorry to see you leave the jurisdiction.

realstuart said:
Given COVID, can the CFSC be taken online? Are there any recommendations for providers that can deliver this remotely?
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As mentioned, the shutdown rules are screwing up everyone's calendars. You can download the manual ( https://www.ottawafirearmsafety.ca/course-material/ or http://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2015/grc-rcmp/PS99-2-2-1-2014-eng.pdf ) and get ready to sit the lectures. Remember, this was written by a committee and there are some downright backwards teaching points. Just shut up and perform exactly as taught.

realstuart said:
[*]Can any of the actual PAL test be done online? I understand there is an in-person component, however can the non-written component be done online? If not, where is it typically administered? I'm not interested in joining a Canadian gun club.
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To possess Restricted Firearms you choose to declare as a Collector or a Shooter. Having a club to go to is always preferable to looking wistfully into the gun safe and smiling at what could be.

realstuart said:
Thank you so much for entertaining all of my questions. I am happy to provide any deeper clarification on any of the points I've mentioned above.

-Stuart
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The PAL course and test must be done in person. There is no way to do it online.

You mentioned not needing a license to import/export ammo for personal use. This is NOT true. When crossing the boarder with ammo, you are required to follow the rules of both countries. It is two actions (exporting from one, then importing to the other).

The USA prohibits exporting ammo without an export license regardless of use. So, while Canada doesn't care if you bring personal use ammo into Canada, you may not take it out of the USA. If you get caught trying, you will end up in a USA Federal Prison.

I'm not as clear on taking ammo into the USA. I know a Canadian resident can take ammo into USA on a Temporary Import Permit (Form 6NIA from the ATF), but any unused ammo must come back to Canada with you. It can't stay. I can not say what the rules are on a USA resident bringing ammo out of Canada and into USA.
 
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realstuart said:
I appreciate the feedback, unfortunately it doesn't really answer the questions I had regarding getting a PAL...
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The form is worded stupidly. When thwy ask you firearms you possess what they mean is what class of license are you applying for.

For clarity you can attach a cover letter to the application , but the less you say to the Canadian Firearms Program the better.
 
Andronicus said:
The PAL course and test must be done in person. There is no way to do it online.
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As others have said. Thank you for that. I guess I am in a holding pattern for that for now.

Andronicus said:
You mentioned not needing a license to import/export ammo for personal use. This is NOT true. When crossing the boarder with ammo, you are required to follow the rules of both countries. It is two actions (exporting from one, then importing to the other).
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Thank you; I'm aware of that. What I said is, however, absolutely true.

Regarding export, you can read the full text here however the summary is "you can export and transport in-transit up to 5,000 rounds of small arms cartridges for personal use without an export and transport in-transit permit".

Regarding import, you can read the full text here however the summary is "A non-licensed resident of the U.S may obtain an approved ATF F 6 (Part I) import permit to import sporting ammunition for his or her own use but not for resale or other commercial purpose".

Andronicus said:
The USA prohibits exporting ammo without an export license regardless of use. So, while Canada doesn't care if you bring personal use ammo into Canada, you may not take it out of the USA. If you get caught trying, you will end up in a USA Federal Prison.
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Whoever said anything about this? Is this an incorrect assumption you made based off of my first message? Candidly, your response is borderline non-sequitur given that I was originally asking about how to obtain a PAL.

Andronicus said:
I'm not as clear on taking ammo into the USA. I know a Canadian resident can take ammo into USA on a Temporary Import Permit (Form 6NIA from the ATF), but any unused ammo must come back to Canada with you. It can't stay. I can not say what the rules are on a USA resident bringing ammo out of Canada and into USA.
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And I wasn't asking.
 
As others have said , For ammo , You just need a pal, If you want to do anything with pistols in Canada , than you need a Rpal.
I don't know where you are, but I know a fellow in S.sask that does the courses one on one these days. But they have to be done here.
I know US fellows with PALs as they would come up to the gunshows and haggle about old Winchester prices, and such. Before all the shut downs happened.
 
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