PSA - Firearms transfer notice no longer temp Reg Cert.

[Pocisk]

Where did I say that you're allowed to bring your restricted firearm home without a registration certificate?

You didn't need to, I read what you wrote, applied context, exercised critical thinking skills and PRESTO, there was the implication just as clear and plain as if you had actually said it.

 

[VinnyQC]

91 (1) Subject to subsection (4), every person commits an offence who possesses a prohibited firearm, a restricted firearm or a non-restricted firearm without being the holder of

(a) a licence under which the person may possess it; and
(b) in the case of a prohibited firearm or a restricted firearm, a registration certificate for it.

Meaning of holder

(4) For the purposes of this Part, a person is the holder of

(a) an authorization or a licence if the authorization or licence has been issued to the person and the person continues to hold it; and
(b) a registration certificate for a firearm if
(i) the registration certificate has been issued to the person and the person continues to hold it, or
(ii) the person possesses the registration certificate with the permission of its lawful holder.

The "holder" of a licence or certificate is not the person who has the physical piece of paper or plastic in his hand. It's the person to whom the licence and/or the certificate was issued to. The possessor of the licence/certificate is the person who has the physical piece of paper in his hands. You cease to be a holder when a new registration certificate is issued to someone else.

In other words:
To possess a restricted firearm (91), you need to be the HOLDER (the person to whom a document was issued) of a licence (a) and a registration certificate (b). The HOLDER. Let me repeat: the HOLDER. HOLDER. HOLDER. Not the possessor. The HOLDER.

In other word, if the certificate has been issued to you, it doesn't matter one bit if you have the piece of paper. The piece of paper is literally just that: a piece of paper. It has literally no importance. And that's why it's a simple piece of paper, printed on a cheap printer, easier to counterfeit than your mom's signature on your 5th grade report card.

If you think holding that piece of paper protects you in any way, shape or form (the "I play it safe argument"), think again. It doesn't. Any cop who woke up that morning a bit too constipated could simply declare that you're not the holder, regardless of that paper. Why? The paper could be fake (keep in mind, you can print as many as you want at home with a 100$ printer), it could be void (if, for example, you sold the gun and a new cert was issued to the new owner), or it could be revoked (judge order, OIC revocation, etc.).

The thing that protects you is being the holder of the certificate, not to be the possessor of a piece of paper.

 

[btabin]

You didn't need to, I read what you wrote, applied context, exercised critical thinking skills and PRESTO, there was the implication just as clear and plain as if you had actually said it.

Try harder next time.

 

[dirty-thirty]

If you present a registration number, attached to the registered firearm, written in a notice from the federal government, what grounds do they have to suggest a crime?

Post #6....This cuts to the quick of the argument. The nine pages that follow just splitting hairs. Most patrol members see you have some documentation with matching numbers....and you're on your way without any more hassle. That's if they even ask when you're pulled over for a traffic violation.

 

[Cameron SS]

Restricted firearms buyers beware! Starting yesterday (Mar10) firearms retailers have been receiving this notice in the email for approved transfer requests, but it is not on the document printed for customers.

Approvals no longer serve as temporary Registration Certificates!

Businesses received no notification or bulletin from the CFO on this change. Customers will have to wait to receive their final Registration Certificates to take their new restricted firearm to the range.

I get that its a new development that the RCMP are no longer pretending that Transfer Notices are de facto temporary registration certificates, but there has never ever been such a thing a temporary registration certificate in law. Chalk up temp certificates with the FRT, dual use magazines and 80% receivers. ie, nonsense, until someone puts it in front of a judge.

If you present a registration number, attached to the registered firearm, written in a notice from the federal government, what grounds do they have to suggest a crime?

S 91, possession of a firearm without a certificate. The number is not the certificate. The print out from the CFPs electronic database is not the certificate. The Transfer notice is not the certificate.

Should it be acceptable to present your driver license when they ask for your PAL too?

So your theory is you arent the holder of a registration certificate unless you literally have it on your person? In my opinion, as soon as I am issued a registration number I am the holder of a registration for the firearm in question

I don't know what his theory is, but in order for you to be the holder of a certificate the physical certificate has to be issued to you in the prescribed manner. Which means you need to receive the document. You don't need to carry it on your physical person to be the 'holder', but you need to have it, and it needs to be valid.

From the Criminal Code of Canada.

117.03 (1) ... a peace officer who finds

(a) a person in possession of a ... firearm who fails, on demand, to produce, for inspection by the peace officer, an authorization or a licence under which the person may lawfully possess the firearm and, in the case of a prohibited firearm or a restricted firearm, a registration certificate for it,...

may seize the firearm,...

(2) If a person from whom any thing is seized under subsection (1) claims the thing within 14 days after the seizure and produces for inspection by the peace officer by whom it was seized, or any other peace officer having custody of it,

(a) a licence under which the person is lawfully entitled to possess it, and

(b) in the case of a prohibited firearm or a restricted firearm, an authorization and registration certificate for it,

the thing shall without delay be returned to that person.

(3) Where any thing seized pursuant to subsection (1) is not claimed and returned as and when provided by subsection (2), a peace officer shall forthwith take the thing before a provincial court judge, ... declare it to be forfeited to Her Majesty, to be disposed of or otherwise dealt with as the Attorney General directs.

Will a judge at a forfeiture hearing accept a transfer notice as proof of a registration certificate? No idea. Will the police or Canadian Firearms Program be there to help you out and testify that a Transfer Notice is a temporary Cert? Absolutely not.

 

[Cameron SS]

Yeah this whole thing has me confused. As far as I can tell exactly nothing has changed. Why the alarm here?

The law hasn't changed. And despite no change in the law, the Canadian Firearms Program is changing their operations. Reason # 3,487 that the RCMP just make up the law at their leisure.

There are no words too vile for the spineless drones who prop up that corrupt and despicable administration.

 

[Virtual.Chris]

Maybe I was always a little overcautious, but wasn't it that way already? The Notice allowed you to take it home only.

Never took a restricted to the range before I got the actual Registration Certificate for it. Most torturous par of owning a new restricted is NOT being allowed to take it to the range for a test run the one day of the week you're free to do so.

Followed closely by "Got my registration the following day" and the range closes for three weeks.

Same here. In fact when I got my first restricted last year, I called the CFO and asked and was told to wait for the final registration cert in the mail before taking it to the range.